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gowlerk

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1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Protesting by taking a knee or supporting someone who does is not “giving up on your country”. It is attempting to improve your country. Veterans do not have a monopoly on patriotism. 

Yeah, but they damn sure do on commitment. You know, kinda like breakfast. The pig put his ass on the line. The chicken just contributed.  

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16 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Yeah, but they damn sure do on commitment. You know, kinda like breakfast. The pig put his ass on the line. The chicken just contributed.  

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'In other words, the overwhelming majority of respondents had economic reasons for joining up; for most enlistees, it seems military service is a job first and a calling second."

 

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

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1 hour ago, Stumpy said:

Nonsense. Plenty of people do unpleasant, dangerous and often life threatening work to benefit others, usually for very little money.

Yup. Day after day. Week after week. Year after year. It's called commitment. It's what you do if you believe in something.  

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13 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Yup. Day after day. Week after week. Year after year. It's called commitment. It's what you do if you believe in something.  

Agreed. Veterans don't have a monopoly on that either.

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7 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Wendy, You're one of those people that has an aura of respect & kindness around you. 

Please don't give up on your country or your flag. 

 

But why pledge allegiance to a flag, and not to the Constitution?  And why "under God"?

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41 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Yup. Day after day. Week after week. Year after year. It's called commitment. It's what you do if you believe in something.  

I agree.  I hope you can see it as clearly in people like Kaepernick as you can in veterans.

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3 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Yeah, but they damn sure do on commitment. You know, kinda like breakfast. The pig put his ass on the line. The chicken just contributed.  

In modern warfare civilians asses are just as much, and maybe more, on the line than the military.  Sitting in a bunker in Nevada directing UAV operations over the middle east isn't more hazardous than being a steelworker or commercial fisherman.

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7 minutes ago, billvon said:

I agree.  I hope you can see it as clearly in people like Kaepernick as you can in veterans.

I get your point, Bill.

I see it more in Tillman; than I ever will in Kaepernick. To me; Kaepernick will always be about self. You'll never convince me that he was about the cause. There's people living in the inner cities, working it every day that have more vested and my respect than he.  

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23 minutes ago, kallend said:

But why pledge allegiance to a flag, and not to the Constitution?  And why "under God"?

I don't think there's anyone in the room that doesn't have an issue with the pledge or "under God." Myself included. 

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35 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I don't think there's anyone in the room that doesn't have an issue with the pledge or "under God." Myself included. 

I'm not ex-military or jingoistic and I've never minded standing for our anthem or anyone else's at a game. It's like a reminder that no matter how the ball or puck bounces don't forget it's just a game between friends.  

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, BIGUN said:

I think you're mistaken, but as stated have no real quantitative measure. 

Didn't mean that and you are correct. 

Hi Keith,

Re:  With only 6% of the population being veterans, I doubt that "most in the stands" are.

I think you're mistaken, but as stated have no real quantitative measure. 

I went to work for a local agency of the US gov't in 1969.  There were lots of veterans employed at that time.  I retired from that same agency in 1999.  Not many of those  employed there were veterans by then. *

I also 'have no real quantitative measure.'

Just a gut check.  

IMO once the draft went away, there was less incentive to be in the military.

Jerry Baumchen

*  The agency employed 3500 - 4000 at any given time.

 

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17 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I'm not ex-military or jingoistic and I've never minded standing for our anthem or anyone else's at a game. It's like a reminder that no matter how the ball or puck bounces don't forget it's just a game between friends.  

 

 

 

 

Hi Joe,

Re:  I'm not ex-military or jingoistic

I'm probably both.  I always stand for the flag/anthem.  For me, I expect it of myself.

Like always folding my napkin into a triangle & placing it on my right thigh.  I expect it of myself

BTW, about 50+ yrs ago, I read where the napkin thingy, that I do, is what is the proper thing to do.

Jerry Baumchen

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7 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

Re:  I'm not ex-military or jingoistic

I'm probably both.  I always stand for the flag/anthem.  For me, I expect it of myself.

Like always folding my napkin into a triangle & placing it on my right thigh.  I expect it of myself

BTW, about 50+ yrs ago, I read where the napkin thingy, that I do, is what is the proper thing to do.

Jerry Baumchen

I wad my napkin or just forget about it and let it hit the floor. As far as the anthem goes, for me, it's sort of like when Ken suggested we all flag ourselves here. Why not, now that Trump is gone, right? The thing for me is we should be proud to be American not because of a song or flag but because of who we are as a people. For that I don't mind standing.

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1 hour ago, kallend said:

In modern warfare civilians asses are just as much, and maybe more, on the line than the military.  Sitting in a bunker in Nevada directing UAV operations over the middle east isn't more hazardous than being a steelworker or commercial fisherman.

Hi John,

Along that line:  

High-Tech Navy Ship Piloted Using a Laptop and a Tablet From Ashore (msn.com)

Jerry Baumchen

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On 6/2/2021 at 2:08 PM, wmw999 said:

Well, I’m going to say that respect is given, because most people don’t know what someone else might have done to earn or lose respect. There’s a difference, but it’s up to the giver to give, rather than the receiver to demand. 
Wendy P. 

I would say courtesy is given, respect is earned.

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1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

I get your point, Bill.

I see it more in Tillman; than I ever will in Kaepernick. To me; Kaepernick will always be about self. You'll never convince me that he was about the cause. 

Again, if that was true, he would have remained sitting down as a protest, instead of heeding the request of a veteran to kneel instead.

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17 hours ago, billvon said:

Again, if that was true, he would have remained sitting down as a protest, instead of heeding the request of a veteran to kneel instead.

Nate was just trying to help Colin save his NFL ass. It was a pivot to help Colin after he'd painted himself into a corner. That didn't work so well either. 

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11 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Nate was just trying to help Colin save his NFL ass. It was a pivot to help Colin after he'd painted himself into a corner. That didn't work so well either. 

Would it be fair to say, then, that taking a knee during the national anthem was specifically and viscerally offensive to you in a way that he clearly doesn’t understand, because he never served?

And could it be that the casual and ingrained inequities in general treatment of people of color is specifically and viscerally offensive to him in a way that you don’t understand because you’ve never been a person of color in the US?

Wendy P. 

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