covid-19

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

5 hours ago, kallend said:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/17/politics/house-committee-trump-covid-19/index.html

"Trump Administration officials engaged in a staggering pattern of political interference in the pandemic response and failed to heed early warnings about the looming crisis," the committee said in its summary. "These decisions placed countless American lives at risk, undermined the nation's public health institutions, and contributed to one of the worst failures of leadership in American history."

 

39 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Anti-Vaxxer Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s House Party Guests Told to Get Vaccinated Before Coming

And of course when asked about it, he tries to blame his wife.[facepalm]

Almost as if the elites are deliberately trying to kill off the uneducated and poor, while protecting themselves.

[kallend 1,623]

I wonder if omicron will result in the reimposition of travel restrictions? 

We were on the first non-research ship back to the Antarctic in over  a year and even then had to undergo heroic measures to be allowed into Argentina to embark.

[wmw999 2,121]

We're still holding our breaths -- and the heroic stuff continues. We're supposed to leave about 3AM tomorrow for Miami.

Wendy P.

[gowlerk 1,910]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

We're still holding our breaths -- and the heroic stuff continues. We're supposed to leave about 3AM tomorrow for Miami.

Wendy P.

Good luck. Some restrictions are already coming back but not outright bans. So far.

[kallend 1,623]

3 hours ago, wmw999 said:

We're still holding our breaths -- and the heroic stuff continues. We're supposed to leave about 3AM tomorrow for Miami.

Wendy P.

We went on a charter flight from Miami to Ushuaia by way of Santiago Chile.  We were in a "bubble" all the way to the ship with no contact with anyone outside the trip.  It was the only way Argentina would allow us in.  Even then we had to be fully vaccinated and have two negative tests (one PCR 2 days before, one antigen the day of)  before being allowed to board the plane.  Stanley (Falkands) wouldn't allow us to land there.  The penguins didn't mind, though. 

[JoeWeber 2,298]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

I wonder if omicron will result in the reimposition of travel restrictions? 

We were on the first non-research ship back to the Antarctic in over  a year and even then had to undergo heroic measures to be allowed into Argentina to embark.

Terrible the first world rich people problems must resolve. Do you still have your fingers and toes. professor?

[kallend 1,623]

1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

Terrible the first world rich people problems must resolve. Do you still have your fingers and toes. professor?

Summer there right now.  

[gowlerk 1,910]

7 minutes ago, kallend said:

Summer there right now.  

You can tell by the daylight and the sun tanning birds!

[kallend 1,623]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/us-politics/article-washington-state-senator-doug-ericksen-outspoken-critic-of-covid-19/

Washington state [GOP] Senator Doug Ericksen, outspoken critic of COVID-19 emergency orders, dies after battle with the virus.

 

Yep!

 

[winsor 186]

I'm in for the vaccine, but have no illusions about its relative safety.   The whole idea is that it should have lasting and significant effects, and you don't always get to choose which effects result.

Given the relative benefit to detriment determination, it's a slam dunk that I should be vaccinated.

For a prepubescent kid, for example, the determination is not quite so clear.

A few of the relevant factors are covered here:

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/covid-vaccine-spike-protein-travels-from-injection-site-organ-damage/

I think I've used this one before, but it provides good background:

https://www.covidviruslifecycle.com/

 

BSBD,

Winsor

Edited December 19, 2021 by winsor

[gowlerk 1,910]

11 minutes ago, winsor said:

but have no illusions about its relative safety. 

You have many illusions about it's safety, as you demonstrate over and over here. I note with some interest the sub heading near the top of the page you linked.

" BUY TODAY: Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s New Book — 'The Real Anthony Fauci'

Edited December 19, 2021 by gowlerk

[kallend 1,623]

When willfully unvaccinated people impose substantial, direct and unnecessary costs and risks on others, it’s fair to impose rules that limit the damage or recoup those costs.

 

High time we had vaccine "passports".

[ryoder 1,382]

The Telegraph: Ban ‘idiot’ anti-vaxxers from flying, says Ryanair boss

“I don't think that governments should permit those people who are not vaccinated to go and infect everybody else.

If you're not vaccinated, you shouldn't be allowed in the hospital, you shouldn't be allowed to fly, you shouldn't be allowed on the London Underground, and you shouldn't be allowed in the local supermarket or your pharmacy either.

You can sit at home and you know, get your deliveries of medicines and food. But you should not, you know, go to work or go on public transport unless you have a vaccine certificate.”

[gowlerk 1,910]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

When willfully unvaccinated people impose substantial, direct and unnecessary costs and risks on others, it’s fair to impose rules that limit the damage or recoup those costs.

 

High time we had vaccine "passports".

We do here. But it seems that no one is checking them. Too much trouble. But at least the system is in place if needed in a hurry.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

You have many illusions about it's safety, as you demonstrate over and over here. I note with some interest the sub heading near the top of the page you linked.

" BUY TODAY: Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s New Book — 'The Real Anthony Fauci'

It also links to a story that claims over 20k deaths from the vaccine.

As I've noted before, use of the J&J vax was suspended after ONE death and a few more incidents of clots.
It was ALL OVER the news. 

Yet these numbskulls seem to think that there has been tens of thousands of deaths that have 'just gone unnoticed'.

And a quick search about the 'spike protein' found this:

https://health-desk.org/articles/what-do-we-know-about-the-toxicity-of-spike-proteins-made-from-covid-19-vaccines

 

It's from June, but the simple reality that the 'spike proteins' don't have actual spikes on them, don't travel anywhere in the body and don't do damage is still valid.

[gowlerk 1,910]

1 hour ago, ryoder said:

If you're not vaccinated, you shouldn't be allowed in the hospital, you shouldn't be allowed to fly, you shouldn't be allowed on the London Underground, and you shouldn't be allowed in the local supermarket or your pharmacy either.

We haven't gone quite that far. But in Canada you can not fly commercially, take a train, or a ferry without being vaccinated. All air crew must be vaccinated, there are no exemptions. The DZ is closed right now, but unless things change by spring no one will get on our aircraft without proof of vaccination. (I note that the quote above is not your words, but an item you quoted)

 

I believe that the Omicron wave is going to result in several much harsher rules on vaccination even in the US. But of course they will come too late to help much.

Edited December 19, 2021 by gowlerk

[millertimeunc 0]

42 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

We do here. But it seems that no one is checking them. Too much trouble. But at least the system is in place if needed in a hurry.

Your government has a turn key system in place which is mandatory, extrajudicial, lacks due process, and whereby it can choose to allow or exclude citizens from traveling or participating in society based upon actions or inactions the government deems pro social or anti social?
 

That’s neat. Be a real shame if all that power got abused later.

[gowlerk 1,910]

Just now, millertimeunc said:

Your government has a turn key system in place which is mandatory, extrajudicial, lacks due process, and whereby it can choose to allow or exclude citizens from traveling or participating in society based upon actions or inactions the government deems pro social or anti social?

Transportation is a Federal responsibility. The policy has broad but obviously not universal support. It is much the same as the US government using the power it has. Some people get bent out of shape in their opposition to doing what is right. It is a little like the selective service that all males in the US have to register for in case they feel a need to go back to Vietnam. You can either knuckle down and follow the law or go to a free country like Canada. Pick your poison. 

[millertimeunc 0]

6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Transportation is a Federal responsibility. The policy has broad but obviously not universal support. It is much the same as the US government using the power it has. Some people get bent out of shape in their opposition to doing what is right. It is a little like the selective service that all males in the US have to register for in case they feel a need to go back to Vietnam. You can either knuckle down and follow the law or go to a free country like Canada. Pick your poison. 

This policy doesn’t exactly make Canada look like the “free” country here. Whenever there is a real or imagined crisis and the government is handed more power as a result, they don’t exactly have the greatest track record with not abusing that power or handing it back when it’s not needed. Did we not learn anything post-9/11?

[gowlerk 1,910]

3 minutes ago, millertimeunc said:

Did we not learn anything post-9/11?

Yes, we learned not to follow US policies too closely. Like not following the neo-cons into Iraq. We learned not to allow our Supreme Court to be packed with ideologues. Thank you.

[airdvr 197]

The whole idea of testing needs to be re-thunk.  I'm wondering if the wide availability of home tests are creating a false sense of security.  Consider the very real possibility that I test negative today.  It means nothing more than today I don't actively have Covid.  I could have been exposed yesterday...might be exposed tomorrow.  According to Rox they are also not nearly as accurate as a PCR.

I see Phizer is developing a Covid pill.  I can almost guarantee the percentage of vaxxed individuals would increase by 10% or more simply because the thought of an injection turns those normally functioning adults into 3 year olds.

Edited December 19, 2021 by airdvr
more thoughts

[GeorgiaDon 340]

9 minutes ago, airdvr said:

The whole idea of testing needs to be re-thunk.  I'm wondering if the wide availability of home tests are creating a false sense of security.  Consider the very real possibility that I test negative today.  It means nothing more than today I don't actively have Covid.  I could have been exposed yesterday...might be exposed tomorrow.  According to Rox they are also not nearly as accurate as a PCR.

Testing can be a useful tool, but only if people follow through if they test positive.  I anticipate that easy availability of tests will just further exacerbate the divide we have in the US.  Some people will test, and if they test positive they will stay home and avoid contact with others until they are no longer infectious.  These would be the people who already have an appreciation for science and have a sense of social responsibility, and they are almost certainly already vaccinated and boosted.  On the other hand there will be a large number of people who don't take the virus seriously, or see it as a badge of patriotism to deny the seriousness of the pandemic, blame it on an anti-Trump conspiracy, believe anonymous hacks from Facebook over their own doctor, etc.  These people will not test, are anti-vaccine, and do not give two shits if they infect other people.  They love to chant about freedom while demanding that hospitals use unproven or disproven "remedies" such as hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.  Testing half the population while leaving the other half to spread the virus will not accomplish anything that hasn't already been accomplished by making vaccines readily available and free.  People who haven't been vaccinated at this point certainly won't test.

For half the population, "Give me freedom or give me death" has mutated into "Give me the freedom to cause your death".

[gowlerk 1,910]

50 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I see Phizer is developing a Covid pill.  I can almost guarantee the percentage of vaxxed individuals would increase by 10% or more simply because the thought of an injection turns those normally functioning adults into 3 year olds.

The Covid pill is not a vaccine. It is an anti-viral treatment that has some level of effectiveness if taken early in the infection process. It will probably encourage people NOT to get vaccinated, unfortunately.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/03/1061060446/how-pfizer-developed-a-covid-pill-in-record-time

Edited December 19, 2021 by gowlerk

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

4 hours ago, ryoder said:

The Telegraph: Ban ‘idiot’ anti-vaxxers from flying, says Ryanair boss

“I don't think that governments should permit those people who are not vaccinated to go and infect everybody else.

If you're not vaccinated, you shouldn't be allowed in the hospital, you shouldn't be allowed to fly, you shouldn't be allowed on the London Underground, and you shouldn't be allowed in the local supermarket or your pharmacy either.

You can sit at home and you know, get your deliveries of medicines and food. But you should not, you know, go to work or go on public transport unless you have a vaccine certificate.”

Hi Robert,

Re:  Ban ‘idiot’ anti-vaxxers from flying

I've concluded that this is probably the best approach.  The federal gov't doesn't seem to have the firepower or incentive to force them to get vax'd.

Use the marketplace and let the chips fall where they may.

If we cannot get them to vax, then let's keep them away from the rest of us.

The 'ban from flying' is a form of isolation.

Jerry Baumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Transportation is a Federal responsibility. The policy has broad but obviously not universal support. It is much the same as the US government using the power it has. Some people get bent out of shape in their opposition to doing what is right. It is a little like the selective service that all males in the US have to register for in case they feel a need to go back to Vietnam. You can either knuckle down and follow the law or go to a free country like Canada. Pick your poison. 

Hi Ken,

Re:  You can either knuckle down and follow the law or go to a free country like Canada. Pick your poison. 

Let us not forget that Belarus is another option:  Man Charged in Jan. 6 U.S. Capitol Riot Flees to Belarus

California Man Charged in Jan. 6 U.S. Capitol Riot Flees to Belarus | World News | US News

So many choices, so little time.

Jerry Baumchen