covid-19

[gowlerk 1,901]

1 hour ago, winsor said:

I agree that it is a bad bug, but the decision making surrounding its treatment has an element of panic, which is generally counterproductive.

 

 

1 hour ago, winsor said:

Being an Atheist I hold orthodoxy suspect. 

I am also an atheist, which has absolutely nothing to do with medical diagnosis. Your link is merely one of the several run by people who have an agenda and work hard at manipulating statistics in order to advance a point of view. We use the testing that is available at a reasonable price and is the most appropriate available depending on the circumstances.

You see an element of panic. I see a system trying to cope with an influx of very sick people and a shortage of available staff. We are now 21 months into this thing and it is beginning to settle into a disease process that can be slowed and ameliorated, but not stopped. The phenomenon of vaccine refusers is leaving enough vulnerable hosts out there for the virus to still be the dominating factor in our health care system. 

Last night my wife came home from a 12 hour shift helping in an ICU. She doesn't like to talk about it much but she did tell me that a patient assigned to her had just come off of a few days on a ventilator that morning. A 68 year old woman from  a very traditional and religious community. She asked my wife if she was vaccinated and if she was alright. April told her that everyone in our family was vaccinated and that nearly everyone she knows is vaccinated and we are all alright. The woman seemed to be thinking about it and eventually admitted that she was "considering getting it as well".  That is a prime example of how a lack of good information and the spreading of bad information harms us all.

The Brownstone Institute and other pseudo-scientific groups spreading their disinformation can take a flying leap.

Edited December 8, 2021 by gowlerk

[jakee 1,254]

1 hour ago, winsor said:

Being an Atheist I hold orthodoxy suspect.  I much prefer Machiavelli to most of what the Vatican didn't ban.

Crikey, please don’t tar the rest of us with the oblivious brush. You can’t post links from obviously biased and untrustworthy sources and then just say “Oh I’m an atheist and it’s not from the Vatican so that just shows how much of an independent thinker I am!” 
 

It just shows that you’re lazy, credulous and lacking any discernible intellectual curiosity.

[BIGUN 1,042]

4 minutes ago, jakee said:

It just shows that you’re lazy, credulous and lacking any discernible intellectual curiosity.

Crikey. Can you not just stop or is it just part of your DNA. You know, I haven't always agreed with what you've said, but lately everything seems to end in a personal attack. If what everybody is saying is irritating you that much, take a break for the rest of the year. Go get laid, get drunk, go have some fun.  

[jakee 1,254]

11 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Crikey. Can you not just stop or is it just part of your DNA. You know, I haven't always agreed with what you've said, but lately everything seems to end in a personal attack. If what everybody is saying is irritating you that much, take a break for the rest of the year. Go get laid, get drunk, go have some fun.  

Can you not? I see personal digs, lifestyle suggestions, nothing on topic…. I’ll wait for the always honest and consistent JoeWeber to tell you off for that.

[wmw999 2,114]

I'm just wondering what an oblivious brush is.

And given that this topic has wandered all over the map, eventually coming back periodically to COVID-19 like a 5-year-old with the promise of cookies, I don't think that an admonition of off-topic posting is reasonable.

Wendy P.

[gowlerk 1,901]

30 minutes ago, jakee said:

It just shows that you’re lazy, credulous and lacking any discernible intellectual curiosity.

 

19 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Crikey. Can you not just stop or is it just part of your DNA.

It certainly does not contribute anything useful. And probably goes over the somewhat murky line that has been established here. Personally I find this sort of comment to be pretty lazy. I am pretty sure that if he worked harder he could find a way to say the same thing without resorting to name calling. It's morning, maybe he needs coffee still?

[billvon 2,379]

3 hours ago, wmw999 said:

If a person is terminal with cancer and is hit by a car, what killed them?

Depends on whether the car is a liberal or a conservative.

[gowlerk 1,901]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

Depends on whether the car is a liberal or a conservative.

Tesla, Prius, or F-250? Words matter.

[winsor 185]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

 

It certainly does not contribute anything useful. And probably goes over the somewhat murky line that has been established here. Personally I find this sort of comment to be pretty lazy. I am pretty sure that if he worked harder he could find a way to say the same thing without resorting to name calling. It's morning, maybe he needs coffee still?

I'm reminded of the old Dial soap commercials.  Aren't you glad you use killfiles?  Don't you wish everyone did?

Anyhow, my objection to orthodoxy is that anything that flies in the face of the 'accepted truth' is deemed heresy.  When doing research, it is due diligence to double check one's assumptions, and I'm leery of the results obtained by someone who doesn't.

The mRNA vaccines are but one arrow in the quiver and have merit. but are certainly a mixed bag.  The efficacy is iffy, and the adverse events are off the scale by comparison to other normally approved vaccines.  The fact that the mode of operation involves generating spike proteins, which are themselves cytotoxic, and have demonstrated clot formation, suggests that looking for something better should continue.  The pandemic is bad, but these vaccines are shy of a panacea.  I know rather a few fully vaccinated people with breakthrough infections, and studies indicate that they shed virus with the best of them.

I don't suggest for a second that one should be complacent with this virus, nor do I recommend being satisfied with anything but a sterilizing cure.  PCR is nice, but I'd like to see undetectable TMA results.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

 

[billvon 2,379]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

Tesla, Prius, or F-250? Words matter.

It's an F-150 Lightning.  That should confuse the issue sufficiently!  

[gowlerk 1,901]

1 minute ago, winsor said:

The efficacy is iffy, and the adverse events are off the scale by comparison to other normally approved vaccines. 

That statement is not only not supported by facts but it is a prime example of the disinformation that is extending the current crisis. 

[gowlerk 1,901]

3 minutes ago, winsor said:

When doing research, it is due diligence to double check one's assumptions, and I'm leery of the results obtained by someone who doesn't.

Yet you post links to dubious sources and then pretend that you either did not know they were dubious, or you claim that you were just trying to be provocative. You make huge invalid assumptions and post them here all the time. It is basically what you do.

[gowlerk 1,901]

2 hours ago, winsor said:

The fact that the mode of operation involves generating spike proteins, which are themselves cytotoxic, and have demonstrated clot formation, suggests that looking for something better should continue.

It was not the mRNA vaccines that were having a problem with some clot formation. It was the Astra Zeneca and to a lesser extent the J&J. Your "research" is very seriously flawed. Go back to the beginning and relearn with an open mind. This post alone is making me seriously question the level of basic understanding of the facts of what is going on that you possess.

Edited December 8, 2021 by gowlerk

[winsor 185]

12 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

It was not the mRNA vaccines that were having a problem with some clot formation. It was the Astra Zeneca and to a lesser extent the J&J. Your "research" is very seriously flawed. Go back to the beginning and relearn with an open mind. This post alone is making me seriously question level of basic understanding of the facts of what is going on that you possess.

I thought that was rather a given.

I agree that the Astra Zeneca and J&J vaccines are outright bad news; having said that, check the adverse events released by Pfizer per FOIA and get back to me.

I don't expect to change much of anyone's mind.  As an aside, usually people ask for an open mind with the same sincerity that goes with entreaties to be 'reasonable.'

In all fairness, your responses lack the raw vitriol that is now typical in this forum.

I don't claim to be right, but it strikes me that anyone who thinks that the current vaccines will suffice is delusional - and no, I'm not aware of any "cure" that's out there 

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[gowlerk 1,901]

1 minute ago, winsor said:

I don't claim to be right, but it strikes me that anyone who thinks that the current vaccines will suffice is delusional - and no, I'm not aware of any "cure" that's out there 

The vaccines would suffice to suppress the virus to the point that they would run out of people to infect. There is no delusion or illusion there. They are near miracles of scientific achievement. But even if we only had Astra Zeneca and J&J they would still be far more beneficial than harmful. They are not "outright bad news", that is bullshit that you are picking up from hanging out on fringe websites. They are saving lives all over the world in places that are not fortunate enough to have the very best vaccines like we do. 

[Coreece 189]

3 hours ago, Baksteen said:

If a person is terminal with cancer and is hit by a car, what killed them?

Whichever one best suits your narrative. . .

[winsor 185]

6 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Whichever one best suits your narrative. . .

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

[nwt 131]

26 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Whichever one best suits your narrative. . .

Same as how we have people like winsor looking to an anarchist blog site for medical information.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

4 hours ago, gowlerk said:

...You see an element of panic. I see a system trying to cope with an influx of very sick people and a shortage of available staff. We are now 21 months into this thing and it is beginning to settle into a disease process that can be slowed and ameliorated, but not stopped. The phenomenon of vaccine refusers is leaving enough vulnerable hosts out there for the virus to still be the dominating factor in our health care system... 

..The Brownstone Institute and other pseudo-scientific groups spreading their disinformation can take a flying leap.

What I see is a health care system that is overloaded, staff that is overwhelmed, and stupid people being conned into believing 'its all a hoax!!!'.

Testing isn't perfect. Whoop-de-freaking-doo.

There are currently no available ICU beds in southwest Wisconsin.

Zero. 

Regardless of how accurate the testing protocols are (or aren't), the fact that unvaxxed Covidiots (for the most part) are pushing the hospitals to collapse should say something. 

Accurate tabulation of deaths is another 'fun' topic. 

Early on (March of 2020), there was a lot of confusion and controversy about the death toll. Confirmed deaths were fairly low. But they weren't testing a whole lot.
Lots of people were dying of 'some sort of pneumonia', but since they weren't tested, they weren't counted as Covid.
After a few weeks, the excess mortality reached the point that those in charge adjusted the stats to include 'likely' deaths. Not just confirmed.

So the idiots jumped all over that, claiming that they were reporting anyone with Covid who died as a "Covid death". The stupidity was amazing. 

Currently, the 'official' death toll is about 5.2 million deaths.

The Economist has done some truly impressive work with 'learning models', applying excess mortality to the question. The number they come up with has a lot of 'wiggle room' and uncertainty, but the range is from 11 million to 21 million, with the most likely number being about 18 million. 

But, of course, the deniers are still pushing the 'hoax' agenda. Along with the "Vaccines are killing people!" garbage. 
The Herman Cain Awards are very telling.

We're a long way from being done with this.

[billeisele 122]

Here we are with open and free FL rocking along for another week with the lowest case rate per 100,000 residents in the country. While the more restrictive states of CA, NY, CT and IL continue to climb. FL 8.63, CA 17.8, CT 40, IL 56.4 and NY 65. The rate of increase should be concerning.

FL has been on this general track for 40 days. The increase in the other states started: CA 2 days ago, NY 40 days ago, CT 38 days ago, IL 40 days ago. The CA data isn't showing a trend. They have been jumping up and down for 45 days after a marked decrease. The other states are more troublesome with steady increases over the period.

So many factors and causes for these numbers. I'm wondering if the start of the winter season in the north with folks indoors will drive these increases higher. We'll continue to watch the trend. 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#compare-trends&sel0=CA,IL,NY,CT,FL

To get a quick view of the whole country use this https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days

 

 

[SkyDekker 1,120]

5 hours ago, wmw999 said:

If a person is terminal with cancer and is hit by a car, what killed them?

Lack of blood the the brain?

/s

[gowlerk 1,901]

3 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Here we are with open and free FL rocking along for another week with the lowest case rate per 100,000 residents in the country. While the more restrictive states of CA, NY, CT and IL continue to climb.

As I travel around I see no signs that any of the states I visit in the US are anything other than "open and free". It has been months since I went into a store that required masks. Other than for staff who are usually the only people wearing them. Bars and restaurants seem to be open everywhere. I don't know what is happening in schools. 

I do know that rates are climbing in cold weather northern states. As you seem to be predicting.

[billvon 2,379]

2 minutes ago, billeisele said:

FL has been on this general track for 40 days. The increase in the other states started: CA 2 days ago, NY 40 days ago, CT 38 days ago, IL 40 days ago.

FL hit a minimum (7 day average) of 1224 new cases on Nov 28th.  They are now at 1853 new cases/day, an increase of about 50% over the past week.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

Expect to see this countrywide as a result of Thanksgiving travel.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

6 hours ago, wmw999 said:

His autopsy, and a test from April 3, indicated that he had had it in April, according to this: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200605/george-floyd-tested-positive-for-covid-19

If a person is terminal with cancer and is hit by a car, what killed them?

Wendy P.

 

Hi Wendy,

Nice reply, I liked that.

However, since life itself is a terminal thingy, I would say that whatever kills you first is what kills you.

Or, I could be wrong; BTDT.

Jerry Baumchen

[nwt 131]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

Here we are with open and free FL rocking along for another week with the lowest case rate per 100,000 residents in the country. While the more restrictive states of CA, NY, CT and IL continue to climb. FL 8.63, CA 17.8, CT 40, IL 56.4 and NY 65. The rate of increase should be concerning.

FL has been on this general track for 40 days. The increase in the other states started: CA 2 days ago, NY 40 days ago, CT 38 days ago, IL 40 days ago. The CA data isn't showing a trend. They have been jumping up and down for 45 days after a marked decrease. The other states are more troublesome with steady increases over the period.

So many factors and causes for these numbers. I'm wondering if the start of the winter season in the north with folks indoors will drive these increases higher. We'll continue to watch the trend. 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#compare-trends&sel0=CA,IL,NY,CT,FL

To get a quick view of the whole country use this https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days

 

 

If we zoom out from this cherrypicked crop, the real situation becomes a bit more clear.