covid-19

[Baksteen 84]

Well, it is not as if the scientific community hasn't been warning about the risk of something like this happening for a long time. It is a direct result of vaccination efforts focusing on the rich countries (and, no doubt, the rich areas in poor countries).

We'll see how the vaccines hold up. I am a bit resigned in this matter since the Netherlands have (mis)managed to make a giant mess of the COVID control even with the current variants. Tonight we are probably getting more strict measures again.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

On 11/26/2021 at 8:01 AM, Baksteen said:

Well, it is not as if the scientific community hasn't been warning about the risk of something like this happening for a long time. It is a direct result of vaccination efforts focusing on the rich countries (and, no doubt, the rich areas in poor countries).

We'll see how the vaccines hold up. I am a bit resigned in this matter since the Netherlands have (mis)managed to make a giant mess of the COVID control even with the current variants. Tonight we are probably getting more strict measures again.

I'm not so sure it's all on the Dutch government. Here in the DWI's it's currently wide open for Dutch tourists. Tui cruise ship's included. The clear majority of Dutch locals and tourists show absolute disdain for masking and social distancing no matter if the rules are clearly posted. Not just amongst themselves but towards everyone. At the hotel where I'm at, nicest in the city, they don't think twice about going unmasked everywhere including joining you in the elevator. Is that the way it is at home, too?

[Erroll 49]

On 11/26/2021 at 12:28 PM, Phil1111 said:

A new variant is out and about. Originating in S. Africa, called B.1.1.529

At this time there is absolutely no evidence that it 'originated' in South Africa. The South African virology scientists, who are among the most advanced and pro-active in the world(having had to deal with HIV, Ebola, Malaria etc.), were the first to discover the variant. The rest of the international community, led by the UK which has 10 times more daily infections than South Africa, had a massive knee-jerk reaction and as a result almost all international travel from South Africa has been banned. It feels is if the country is being punished for being at the forefront of virology research.

[headoverheels 291]

12 minutes ago, Erroll said:

At this time there is absolutely no evidence that it 'originated' in South Africa. The South African virology scientists, who are among the most advanced and pro-active in the world(having had to deal with HIV, Ebola, Malaria etc.), were the first to discover the variant. The rest of the international community, led by the UK which has 10 times more daily infections than South Africa, had a massive knee-jerk reaction and as a result almost all international travel from South Africa has been banned. It feels is if the country is being punished for being at the forefront of virology research.

But this variant has already become something like 90% of the new cases in South Africa.  It may have originate in Botswana, or elsewhere, but most of the world's cases to date are in SA.  It makes sense to stop flights from SA to other parts of the world right now, until more is known about how contagious this variant is, and how sick that it makes people.  

[Phil1111 910]

5 hours ago, Erroll said:

At this time there is absolutely no evidence that it 'originated' in South Africa. The South African virology scientists, who are among the most advanced and pro-active in the world(having had to deal with HIV, Ebola, Malaria etc.), were the first to discover the variant. The rest of the international community, led by the UK which has 10 times more daily infections than South Africa, had a massive knee-jerk reaction and as a result almost all international travel from South Africa has been banned. It feels is if the country is being punished for being at the forefront of virology research.

Correct. I should have said first detected in S. Africa. Most likely because you have the only top class medical industry in the whole continent. A EU virologist was talking on BBC to the effect that the new variant isn't more severe in the cases she was aware of. But of course because this variant is so new that may end up being incorrect.

Unfortunately your area of the world is going to take a hit for the next six months or so.

Take care.

[ryoder 1,381]

Looks like Israel is punishing all countries:

Reuters: Israel to ban entry of foreigners from all countries over Omicron

[winsor 186]

I'm inoculated all to hell, but still retain healthy skepticism regarding the various mRNA concoctions now available.

Having worked with % of the major players in the Pharmaceutical" industry, to include Pfizer and their subsidiary Pharmacia/Upjohn, I am less than 100% reassured when they report their 'vaccine' as being "safe and effective."  This is obliquely related but typical:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history

Like HIV, having a vaccine is a worthy goal, but the treatments that have shown to be effective arose before that quest was successful.  We should take a hint.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[billvon 2,392]

10 hours ago, Erroll said:

The rest of the international community, led by the UK which has 10 times more daily infections than South Africa

But the UK has two cases of this variant; South Africa has 3000.  So I can see a difference in response.

Travel bans do very little to stop spread; there are just too many other ways for the virus to get anywhere.  I would hope this round of bans expires when omicron shows up in the US.

[winsor 186]

11 minutes ago, billvon said:

But the UK has two cases of this variant; South Africa has 3000.  So I can see a difference in response.

Travel bans do very little to stop spread; there are just too many other ways for the virus to get anywhere.  I would hope this round of bans expires when omicron shows up in the US.

I bet you a dollar it's already here.

[wmw999 2,120]

If the bans give people a few days to consider what their reaction is going to be (everywhere from "back into my cave" to "party time"), maybe, but only maybe, they're worth the time they give people to plan.

Once it's disseminated (and I don't know that any concerning variant has been detected before it spread), there's not a lot of point. But doubling down on "business as usual" probably isn't the answer, either.

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

1 hour ago, winsor said:

I'm inoculated all to hell, but still retain healthy skepticism regarding the various mRNA concoctions now available.

Having worked with % of the major players in the Pharmaceutical" industry, to include Pfizer and their subsidiary Pharmacia/Upjohn, I am less than 100% reassured when they report their 'vaccine' as being "safe and effective."  This is obliquely related but typical:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history

Like HIV, having a vaccine is a worthy goal, but the treatments that have shown to be effective arose before that quest was successful.  We should take a hint.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

Sure. But if it's only nearly as safe as it is effective, something most folks know already if only by instinct, we're better off by leagues. Time to beat a different horse, I'm thinking. 

[billvon 2,392]

44 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Once it's disseminated (and I don't know that any concerning variant has been detected before it spread), there's not a lot of point.

Yep.  At most it gives us a little more time.  I'd be willing to bet, though, that there are dozens of omicron cases in the US right now.

[headoverheels 291]

Here is an interesting article regarding what is known to date.   More will be known in a couple of weeks, when omicron virus has been tested against sera from people previously infected or vaccinated.

https://www.science.org/content/article/patience-crucial-why-we-won-t-know-weeks-how-dangerous-omicron

  

[Westerly 61]

ah yes another variant. dont worry, there will be 50 more to come i am sure. i am fairly confident there is no one on this forum that will live to see the day that covid goes away.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Westerly

[murps2000 86]

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/two-cases-omicron-variant-detected-canada-govt-says-2021-11-28/
 

Time to ban travel to & from Canada.

[gowlerk 1,904]

3 hours ago, Westerly said:

ah yes another variant. dont worry, there will be 50 more to come i am sure. i am fairly confident there is no one on this forum that will live to see the day that covid goes away.

I'm fairly confident that there is no one here who did not realize that long ago.

[Baksteen 84]

On 11/27/2021 at 5:34 PM, JoeWeber said:

I'm not so sure it's all on the Dutch government. Here in the DWI's it's currently wide open for Dutch tourists. Tui cruise ship's included. The clear majority of Dutch locals and tourists show absolute disdain for masking and social distancing no matter if the rules are clearly posted. Not just amongst themselves but towards everyone. At the hotel where I'm at, nicest in the city, they don't think twice about going unmasked everywhere including joining you in the elevator. Is that the way it is at home, too?

Non-masking (this includes incorrectly worn masks) is a major annoyance.

Thankfully the majority of the population at least complies with the rules such as they are. Unfortunately the government does not seem to have learned anything in the past two years. They tend to just wait for people to notice by themselves when the infection rates go up and start adhering to measures by themselves.

The government then proceeds to take the measures they should have taken "two weeks ago". They cannot seem to understand that

a) infection rates are a prediction of hospitalised / ICU cases
b) there are other people besides COVID-patients who need ICU beds.

Finally, when they do take measures they undermine their own credibility with statements like "These measures will only last three weeks" - only to come back two weeks later with even more strict measures which last another month. Or, last july, "no more facemasks" and "Lockdowns are a thing of the past", when the infection rates seemed under control and vaccination rates were on the rise. 

So yes, compliance is partially due to the population lacking common sense, but the goverment has done a stirling job undermining said compliance and common sense by their general bumbling approach to dealing with the virus.

Lastly, I suspect that in any country people who are willing to travel for hours/days by plane or boat packed together with lots of other people are not necessarily the  people who are most terrified of COVID. 

On 11/28/2021 at 7:01 AM, Erroll said:

At this time there is absolutely no evidence that it 'originated' in South Africa. The South African virology scientists, who are among the most advanced and pro-active in the world(having had to deal with HIV, Ebola, Malaria etc.), were the first to discover the variant. The rest of the international community, led by the UK which has 10 times more daily infections than South Africa, had a massive knee-jerk reaction and as a result almost all international travel from South Africa has been banned. It feels is if the country is being punished for being at the forefront of virology research.

Look at it this way, at least the residents of those highly infected countries are not coming your way to infect your countrymen either.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

3 hours ago, Baksteen said:

Lastly, I suspect that in any country people who are willing to travel for hours/days by plane or boat packed together with lots of other people are not necessarily the  people who are most terrified of COVID. 

Which has zero to do with willingly complying with whatever rules there are in vacationland and at the businesses you patronize. That's the thing about travel, right? Put your best foot forward and make a good example on arrival not doing whatever the hell you think is best, local customs be damned. Maybe nothing has really changed anywhere. Maybe Covid has just shown us how many of us really are jerks.

[BIGUN 1,051]

37 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Maybe Covid has just shown us how many of us really are jerks.

^Truth

[Phil1111 910]

45 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

...... Maybe Covid has just shown us how many of us really are jerks.

 

7 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

^Truth

Or who in the population trusts, understands science and truly respects others.

I was surprised at the disclosures this week about the low vax rates in Switzerland. Or the debate that led to the national vote on vaccine passports for the vaccinated. Which passed at 63% v. eliminating them. Previously I'd thought the Swiss to be more a homogeneous population with a more scientific mind.

[winsor 186]

This article:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/pfizer-new-covid-19-protease-inhibitor-drug-is-not-just-repackaged-ivermectin/

is a pretty interesting (to me) treatment of the progress toward the use of protease inhibitors for SARS-CoV-2.

This article:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-020-01577-x

gets more into the nuts and bolts of the process.

Protease inhibitors are very useful for chronic but difficult to transmit viruses.  HIV and Hepatitis C are examples, where their transmission requires up close and personal exchange of bodily fluids (blood et al.).

SARS-CoV-2, OTOH, is airborne, so one can receive an infectious inoculum just by being in the vicinity of someone shedding virus.

Given the 'life cycle' of the virus and its demonstrated propensity for reinfection, successful treatment for demonstrated exposure is unlikely to prevent subsequent infection.

My guess is that, when the Pfizer offering is approved, its utility will be for people testing positive and any known contacts, so that the disease does not progress to full-blown COVID-19, repeat as necessary.  We'll see.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

Edited November 29, 2021 by winsor

[billvon 2,392]

3 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Maybe Covid has just shown us how many of us really are jerks.

I forget which science-minded person this was, but someone was talking to an anti-masker/anti-vaxxer about why both are important, and he said he got to a point where he didn't know how to explain to the anti-vaxxer that they should care about other people.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

 

Or who in the population trusts, understands science and truly respects others.

I was surprised at the disclosures this week about the low vax rates in Switzerland. Or the debate that led to the national vote on vaccine passports for the vaccinated. Which passed at 63% v. eliminating them. Previously I'd thought the Swiss to be more a homogeneous population with a more scientific mind.

Which is why no one should feel bad about getting 3 or 6 boosters if they think it's helping. How can anyone know, and indications are dim, how big the anti-vax population really is in any underserved nation. Hell, we can't even vaccinate Alabama.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

3 minutes ago, billvon said:

I forget which science-minded person this was, but someone was talking to an anti-masker/anti-vaxxer about why both are important, and he said he got to a point where he didn't know how to explain to the anti-vaxxer that they should care about other people.

That's crazy. Did the Republican even try to answer?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

3 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

... Maybe Covid has just shown us how many of us really are jerks.

No "maybe" about it.

2 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Or who in the population trusts, understands science and truly respects others.

This too.

37 minutes ago, billvon said:

I forget which science-minded person this was, but someone was talking to an anti-masker/anti-vaxxer about why both are important, and he said he got to a point where he didn't know how to explain to the anti-vaxxer that they should care about other people.

It's widely attributed to Fauci (that's who I thought said it), but it's not from him.
Its actually from the "Repeal Obamacare" bullshit back in 2017.

 

https://www.oprahdaily.com/life/a33547008/viral-dr-fauci-quote-caring-for-others/

I've said it more than once that the past couple years hasn't really destroyed my faith in humanity, mainly because it didn't really exist pre-Covid.

But I've certainly lost what little shreds I had left.

I've mentioned the Herman Cain Awards a few times before.
The 'funny' part about them is that the 'winners' (dead people) are most often conservatives.

Trump fans.

The type who post shit on FB (and other places) saying "I don't care if you're vaccinated", or the Trumpette standby "Fuck Your Feelings". 

So, of course, that type is all up in arms, horribly offended, terribly put out that people are mocking the anti-vaxxers who end up in bad shape. Or dead.

They want it stopped.

Shut down. 

You know, cancelled.

Because their feelings are hurt.

Go figure.