covid-19

[wmw999 2,116]

Perfect. We’ll be back in town around the first, and I’m still deciding on whether to mix or just go with the same. Of course, the decision might be made for me by availability. 
Wendy P. 

[headoverheels 291]

8 hours ago, wmw999 said:

We’ll be back in town around the first, and I’m still deciding on whether to mix or just go with the same. 

Mix or match

 

 

[billeisele 122]

It's evident that this is political, as are other things going on in DC. It's difficult to believe that elected officials with supposed intelligence can have opinions that fall strictly on political lines. Until that stops all of us are at the mercy of the political party in charge. Sad. 

 

Multiple studies have indicated that natural immunity among past COVID-19 patients is strong and similar or superior to the protection from COVID-19 vaccines. Some experts have pushed for federal health officials to take natural immunity into account when issuing recommendations and rules. But federal authorities currently recommend virtually everybody get a vaccine, including the recovered, arguing the strong protection gets even better when those people have a jab.

Harshbarger, though, says a number of Americans object to getting a vaccine while pointing out that natural immunity to other diseases is accepted as an alternative to vaccination.

She and 10 other members of the House of Representatives late last week introduced the “Natural Immunity Is Real Act,” a companion to a Senate bill from Sens. Mike Lee (R-Utah), Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.), Mike Braun (R-Ind.), and Dan Sullivan (R-Alaska).

It would require federal agencies to “acknowledge, accept, and agree to truthfully present, natural immunity pertaining to COVID-19 pursuant to promulgating certain regulations.”

The congressmembers are presenting the bill as President Joe Biden’s administration works to finalize a regulation that would force private companies with over 100 employees to mandate presenting proof of COVID-19 vaccination or have staff members be tested weekly for the disease.

There is no opt-out for natural immunity.

Other mandates are already in place on the federal, state, and local level that have led to some Americans losing their jobs.

“I’ve read some of the studies that show that natural immunity, in a lot of ways, can be more effective. And I know there’s one study that shows that the percentage of protection is even better than two doses of the vaccine, in some cases. There is ample scientific data out there that show that. Think about it. We have immunity against measles, and smallpox, and they accept that. Why won’t they do it for COVID?” said Harshbarger, a licensed pharmacist since 1987.

“Too many medical leaders are refusing to publicly recognize what overwhelming data has already shown—protection afforded to individuals with natural immunity is real, robust and durable,” Rep. Daniel Webster (R-Fla.) added in a written statement. “Denying science only contributes to existing confusion, misinformation, and mistrust among the American people. This bill helps restore trust and faith in the Public Health system, while maintaining our fight against COVID-19.”

The other co-sponsors are Reps. Jeff Van Drew (R-N.J.), Chris Stewart (R-Utah), Bill Posey (R-Fla.), Mary Miller (R-Ind.), Mariannette Miller-Meeks (R-Iowa), Dan Bishop (R-N.C.), Mo Brooks (R-Ala.), Madison Cawthorn (R-N.C.), and Chip Roy (R-Texas).

[olofscience 420]

13 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Multiple studies 

One study.

And it has not yet been peer-reviewed.

Here's a better study: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_

For a layperson-friendly article: No, your antibodies are not better than a vaccination: an explainer

When your source article repeatedly calls it the "CCP virus", complaining about this being political seems a bit silly...

[gowlerk 1,902]

42 minutes ago, billeisele said:

It's evident that this is political, as are other things going on in DC. It's difficult to believe that elected officials with supposed intelligence can have opinions that fall strictly on political lines. Until that stops all of us are at the mercy of the political party in charge. Sad. 

 

Natural immunity is currently being claimed by anyone who does not want to be vaccinated. Most of them are full of shit. There is no easy or reasonable way to prove that you have "natural immunity". Just get the freaking vaccine. Or stay away. Not wanting to do your part in a crisis. Sad.

Edited October 25, 2021 by gowlerk

[SkyDekker 1,120]

45 minutes ago, olofscience said:

When your source article repeatedly calls it the "CCP virus", complaining about this being political seems a bit silly...

The Epoch Times is a heavily biased propaganda publication, hardly a good source for scientific matter. Quoting it, is a pretty good indication "research" didn't take place.

[headoverheels 291]

1 minute ago, SkyDekker said:

The Epoch Times is a heavily biased propaganda publication, hardly a good source for scientific matter. Quoting it, is a pretty good indication "research" didn't take place.

I thought that that was Bill's point, that these R's are making it political.

 

[billvon 2,380]

Epoch Times nonsense notwithstanding, I would be fine with replacing any existing vaccination requirement with a requirement for up-to-date vaccination OR a recent (past 60 days) antibody test.

Although I have a feeling that as soon as you did that, the right wing would call you a Nazi for requiring testing, just like Hitler did to the Jews.

[mistercwood 287]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Epoch Times nonsense notwithstanding, I would be fine with replacing any existing vaccination requirement with a requirement for up-to-date vaccination OR a recent (past 60 days) antibody test.

Could it also not simply be a question of cost, as well? I have no idea what an antibody test costs, but if the vaccine is cheaper then it makes more sense logistically to require it over the test.

[Stumpy 254]

2 hours ago, billeisele said:

It's evident that this is political, as are other things going on in DC. It's difficult to believe that elected officials with supposed intelligence can have opinions that fall strictly on political lines. Until that stops all of us are at the mercy of the political party in charge. Sad. 

 

Multiple studies have indicated that natural immunity among past COVID-19 patients is strong and similar or superior to the protection from COVID-19 vaccines. Some experts have pushed for federal health officials to take natural immunity into account when issuing recommendations and rules. But federal authorities currently recommend virtually everybody get a vaccine, including the recovered, arguing the strong protection gets even better when those people have a jab.

Harshbarger, though, says a number of Americans object to getting a vaccine while pointing out that natural immunity to other diseases is accepted as an alternative to vaccination.

She and 10 other members of the House of Representatives late last week introduced the “Natural Immunity Is Real Act,” a companion to a Senate bill from Sens. Mike Lee (R-Utah), Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.), Mike Braun (R-Ind.), and Dan Sullivan (R-Alaska).

It would require federal agencies to “acknowledge, accept, and agree to truthfully present, natural immunity pertaining to COVID-19 pursuant to promulgating certain regulations.”

The congressmembers are presenting the bill as President Joe Biden’s administration works to finalize a regulation that would force private companies with over 100 employees to mandate presenting proof of COVID-19 vaccination or have staff members be tested weekly for the disease.

There is no opt-out for natural immunity.

Other mandates are already in place on the federal, state, and local level that have led to some Americans losing their jobs.

“I’ve read some of the studies that show that natural immunity, in a lot of ways, can be more effective. And I know there’s one study that shows that the percentage of protection is even better than two doses of the vaccine, in some cases. There is ample scientific data out there that show that. Think about it. We have immunity against measles, and smallpox, and they accept that. Why won’t they do it for COVID?” said Harshbarger, a licensed pharmacist since 1987.

“Too many medical leaders are refusing to publicly recognize what overwhelming data has already shown—protection afforded to individuals with natural immunity is real, robust and durable,” Rep. Daniel Webster (R-Fla.) added in a written statement. “Denying science only contributes to existing confusion, misinformation, and mistrust among the American people. This bill helps restore trust and faith in the Public Health system, while maintaining our fight against COVID-19.”

The other co-sponsors are Reps. Jeff Van Drew (R-N.J.), Chris Stewart (R-Utah), Bill Posey (R-Fla.), Mary Miller (R-Ind.), Mariannette Miller-Meeks (R-Iowa), Dan Bishop (R-N.C.), Mo Brooks (R-Ala.), Madison Cawthorn (R-N.C.), and Chip Roy (R-Texas).

This is horribly misleading and the sort of information that in the wrong place WILL ACTUALLY KILL PEOPLE.
 

Please stop it.

[gowlerk 1,902]

2 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

We have immunity against measles, and smallpox,

Where do they think this immunity came from? (note quote of a quote)

[billvon 2,380]

37 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

Could it also not simply be a question of cost, as well? I have no idea what an antibody test costs, but if the vaccine is cheaper then it makes more sense logistically to require it over the test.

Well, if someone doesn't want to get vaccinated, and wants to cover the cost of antibody testing themselves - I'd have no problem with that.

 

[kallend 1,620]

I see that the 14 day rolling average of US COVID deaths still has Texas and Florida in the #1 and #2 spots.  Between them, they beat all of western Europe.

I wonder if having governors who actively oppose healthcare recommendations is just a coincidence.

Hmmm.

[murps2000 86]

5 hours ago, mistercwood said:

Could it also not simply be a question of cost, as well? I have no idea what an antibody test costs, but if the  vaccine is cheaper then it makes more sense logistically to require it over the test.

I don’t know of anyone who has had to pay for a vaccine. To calculate the cost of antibody tests over vaccination you’d  be dividing by zero.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

7 hours ago, billeisele said:

...Think about it. We have immunity against measles, and smallpox, and they accept that. Why won’t they do it for COVID?” said Harshbarger, a licensed pharmacist since 1987.

You would be very hard-pressed to find a single American with natural immunity to smallpox. 

The measles virus significantly depletes memory B-cells and T-cells, so people who are naturally infected end up with weakened immunity to all the diseases they were previously vaccinated against or had immunity to due to natural immunity.  Children (and adults as well) who get measles are significantly more likely to have severe infections from numerous other diseases, including diseases they had been vaccinated against or had had previously ("breakthrough infections"), compared to people who were vaccinated against measles.  In this case the measles vaccine stimulates immunity without killing immune cells, a much better outcome than the natural infection.

It seems rather bizarre that a licensed pharmacist would choose those two diseases as examples.

[mistercwood 287]

4 hours ago, billvon said:

Well, if someone doesn't want to get vaccinated, and wants to cover the cost of antibody testing themselves - I'd have no problem with that.

 

7 minutes ago, murps2000 said:

I don’t know of anyone who has had to pay for a vaccine. To calculate the cost of antibody tests over vaccination you’d  be dividing by zero.

I meant more in terms of, if the government is paying for it and the vax is cheaper than the test, then it's not "political" to be for them to preference the vax as the acceptable option. It's just practical logistically.

[murps2000 86]

18 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

 

I meant more in terms of, if the government is paying for it and the vax is cheaper than the test, then it's not "political" to be for them to preference the vax as the acceptable option. It's just practical logistically.

Okay I sort of agree with you there. I feel the true costs, in the end, will be measured in effectiveness rather than expenditure. But by the time that’s figured out the electorate will only remember the politics surrounding the expenditure.

[kallend 1,620]

We're Number 1!

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

11 minutes ago, kallend said:

We're Number 1!

 

We're also well behind the rest of the industrial world in vax numbers.

Go figure.

Interesting stat from the NYT:

Unvaxxed males over 65, 24/100k hospitalized.
Vaxxed...

1.5/100k.

Go figure.

[billeisele 122]

Was simply using COVID as an example of what is wrong in Washington. It's ridiculous that the current issues are split along party lines. Bad actors are on both sides.

As for COVID...the US stats are: 13.7% of population has had it, 0.22% (734,752 people) of population have died from it.

Of interest is the US 2020 and 2021 annual data: COVID cases 6.21% for 2020, 7.38% for 2021, and deaths 0.11% for 2020, 0.11% for 2021. Obviously the 2021 data is not a full year. This shows an increase in (reported) cases and an identical chance of dying (so far this year). This assumes that the CDC reporting is accurate.

Too many variables to draw definitive conclusions but it does raise some interesting questions. With college football in full swing and no one wears masks or distances, why is there not a notable increase? Post game alcohol cleansing? If 57% of the population is fully vaccinated why are the death rates holding steady? Is that COVID fatigue and people are out exposing themselves? Why is the US refusing to recognize natural immunity and other treatment protocols especially since the EU has done so?

One could spend days digging thru data. Of interesting note is the declining death and infection rates in India where vaccines are in short supply and Ivermectin is widely used. This is WHO data. Over the last 30 days the death rate is 0.06%, the US is 1.36% and CAN is 0.3%. The case rate per 1,000 is 0.42, the US is 7.8 (18.6X higher), and CAN is 2.7%. This could simply be reporting, who knows.

Roll on, don't croak.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

20 hours ago, billeisele said:

It's evident that this is political, as are other things going on in DC. It's difficult to believe that elected officials with supposed intelligence can have opinions that fall strictly on political lines. Until that stops all of us are at the mercy of the political party in charge. Sad. 

 

Multiple studies have indicated that natural immunity among past COVID-19 patients is strong and similar or superior to the protection from COVID-19 vaccines. Some experts have pushed for federal health officials to take natural immunity into account when issuing recommendations and rules. But federal authorities currently recommend virtually everybody get a vaccine, including the recovered, arguing the strong protection gets even better when those people have a jab.

Harshbarger, though, says a number of Americans object to getting a vaccine while pointing out that natural immunity to other diseases is accepted as an alternative to vaccination.

She and 10 other members of the House of Representatives late last week introduced the “Natural Immunity Is Real Act,” a companion to a Senate bill from Sens. Mike Lee (R-Utah), Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.), Mike Braun (R-Ind.), and Dan Sullivan (R-Alaska).

It would require federal agencies to “acknowledge, accept, and agree to truthfully present, natural immunity pertaining to COVID-19 pursuant to promulgating certain regulations.”

The congressmembers are presenting the bill as President Joe Biden’s administration works to finalize a regulation that would force private companies with over 100 employees to mandate presenting proof of COVID-19 vaccination or have staff members be tested weekly for the disease.

There is no opt-out for natural immunity.

Other mandates are already in place on the federal, state, and local level that have led to some Americans losing their jobs.

“I’ve read some of the studies that show that natural immunity, in a lot of ways, can be more effective. And I know there’s one study that shows that the percentage of protection is even better than two doses of the vaccine, in some cases. There is ample scientific data out there that show that. Think about it. We have immunity against measles, and smallpox, and they accept that. Why won’t they do it for COVID?” said Harshbarger, a licensed pharmacist since 1987.

“Too many medical leaders are refusing to publicly recognize what overwhelming data has already shown—protection afforded to individuals with natural immunity is real, robust and durable,” Rep. Daniel Webster (R-Fla.) added in a written statement. “Denying science only contributes to existing confusion, misinformation, and mistrust among the American people. This bill helps restore trust and faith in the Public Health system, while maintaining our fight against COVID-19.”

The other co-sponsors are Reps. Jeff Van Drew (R-N.J.), Chris Stewart (R-Utah), Bill Posey (R-Fla.), Mary Miller (R-Ind.), Mariannette Miller-Meeks (R-Iowa), Dan Bishop (R-N.C.), Mo Brooks (R-Ala.), Madison Cawthorn (R-N.C.), and Chip Roy (R-Texas).

Day'am! You got's Mo, Madison and even Tommy Tuberville? I'm in. Hey, where's Louie Gomer?

[billeisele 122]

18 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Day'am! You got's Mo, Madison and even Tommy Tuberville? I'm in. Hey, where's Louie Gomer?

Dang, your PPo2 must be slipping.

[billvon 2,380]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

With college football in full swing and no one wears masks or distances, why is there not a notable increase?

Vaccination and NPI's (masking, cleaning, distancing etc)

Quote

If 57% of the population is fully vaccinated why are the death rates holding steady?

1) They are dropping actually
2) 57% is enough to get rates to drop as long as it's paired with other NPI's (like masking.)  To get 100% back to normal you'd need to get that to 80-90%.

Quote

Why is the US refusing to recognize natural immunity and other treatment protocols especially since the EU has done so?

?? They do recognize natural immunity and other treatment protocols.  Google monoclonal antibody treatment, for example. 

[gowlerk 1,902]

2 minutes ago, billvon said:

They do recognize natural immunity

Nearly all the vaccine holdouts are now claiming natural immunity. Most of the are lying. 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

Nearly all the vaccine holdouts are now claiming natural immunity. Most of the are lying. 

Then screw it, if anyone can show a positive anti-body test let's include them. But we must exclude all others or it'll be another pointless exercise.