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gowlerk

covid-19

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I had an adverse reaction to the 2nd shot of the Monderna product. I woke up with chest pain and tachycardia with a resting HR of 120. That was extremely abnormal for me as I run on a daily basis and have a low resting HR (50 to 65 most of the time). I took an ECG and it was sinus tachycardia with no arrhythmia and I had just completed a full cardio workup in the months prior with excellent results so I know there was nothing actually wrong with my heart. It was just a weird experience. The next morning things were back to normal and I haven't had any issues since. I have never had a negative reaction to any other vaccine before and I have taken tons of them. That was a very strange and extremely unusual experience for me though.

Edited by 20kN

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My brother had quite a reaction to his 2nd Moderna vaccine.  Got chills that 4 blankets wouldn't fix.  His legs muscles were spasmodically cramping, so that he had trouble walking or sleeping.  I think he said that his heart rate was also high. Next day, he felt like someone had been beating his legs with a pool cue.   A friend of his had similar, but less severe, reactions to his 2nd vaccine -- I think also Moderna.  My brother's wife had essentially no reaction to either dose of Pfizer, nor did another friend (not sure which vaccine).  These four folks are 68-75 years old.    I decided that my wife and I will not get the 2nd dose on the same day, in case we both have reactions.

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On 2/22/2021 at 2:16 AM, headoverheels said:

so that it would probably be best to delay 2nd shots in order to get more people the initial vaccination.

"We saw it in the trials, so it's really not surprising," Parikh added. "Now we're seeing it in real time as the vaccines are being rolled out."

In both Pfizer's and Moderna's phase III trial data, systemic adverse events were reported more frequently after dose 2 than dose 1. For the latter, rates were 54.9% versus 42.2% for placebo after the first dose and 79.4% versus 36.5% for placebo after the second dose. Fever, headache, fatigue, myalgia, arthralgia, and chills were far more common after the second dose compared with the first dose and with all placebo doses.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/91157

EDIT: Copied the wrong section the first time. 

Edited by BIGUN

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Interestingly enough, I heard a talk on the placebo effect in general yesterday; in the COVID vaccine trials, about 30% of people had an adverse effect (besides sore arm) to the placebo. Fewer to the second shot, which given that the actual shot has a higher incidence of adverse effect, seems to indicate that the second shot does have a noticeable effect in some people.

Got my Pfizer shot one on Saturday; already have my follow-up scheduled for shot 2. I'll be volunteering at our local senior center as an intake person after that. Seems only right, since it's a 10-minute stroll.

Wendy P.

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On 2/23/2021 at 6:18 AM, wmw999 said:

Interestingly enough, I heard a talk on the placebo effect in general yesterday; in the COVID vaccine trials, about 30% of people had an adverse effect (besides sore arm) to the placebo. Fewer to the second shot, which given that the actual shot has a higher incidence of adverse effect, seems to indicate that the second shot does have a noticeable effect in some people.

 

Placebo is a very powerful drug, with a well documented cure rate of around 30% for all known diseases.

My wife was fine after both Moderna shots, other than a sore arm.  I had no reaction to the first shot but as previously reported, felt generally under the weather for 24 hours after the 2nd.

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33 minutes ago, nwt said:

I'm 24 hours out from my second dose of Pfizer/BioNTech. I didn't sleep well and I might feel slightly yucky, but very slight. My arm is definitely more sore than after the first. 

Any improvement in your eyesight?  Or an urge to go hunt large game?

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10 hours ago, kallend said:

Placebo is a very powerful drug, with a well documented cure rate of around 30% for all known diseases.

 

ugh, bullshit. Did you get that 'fact' from Trump's Twitter feed? Here is one example of a thousand I could provide. Lung cancer is the #1 killer of cancer-related deaths in the USA. Someone with stage 4 lung cancer, which is the stage that the greatest percentage of people are diagnosed in, has a 5-year life expectancy rate of 1%. It's basically an absolute death sentence. Yet, most people diagnosed with it still undergo aggressive treatment and all but a fraction of a percentage still die before the 5-year mark--and mind you they are taking real drugs that actually do something, not placebos.

ALS is another disease. That has a fatality rate of nearly 100%. Very few people with ALS are alive 10 years after diagnosis, even though nearly all of them accept treatment.

Edited by Westerly

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1 hour ago, Westerly said:

ugh, bullshit. Did you get that 'fact' from Trump's Twitter feed? Here is one example of a thousand I could provide. Lung cancer is the #1 killer of cancer-related deaths in the USA. Someone with stage 4 lung cancer, which is the stage that the greatest percentage of people are diagnosed in, has a 5-year life expectancy rate of 1%. It's basically an absolute death sentence. Yet, most people diagnosed with it still undergo aggressive treatment and all but a fraction of a percentage still die before the 5-year mark--and mind you they are taking real drugs that actually do something, not placebos.

ALS is another disease. That has a fatality rate of nearly 100%. Very few people with ALS are alive 10 years after diagnosis, even though nearly all of them accept treatment.

You have no understanding of what a placebo is or its effects.It is far beyond positive thinking.

A lighter understanding.

A deeper understanding.

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9 hours ago, Westerly said:

ugh, bullshit. Did you get that 'fact' from Trump's Twitter feed? Here is one example of a thousand I could provide. Lung cancer is the #1 killer of cancer-related deaths in the USA. Someone with stage 4 lung cancer, which is the stage that the greatest percentage of people are diagnosed in, has a 5-year life expectancy rate of 1%. It's basically an absolute death sentence. Yet, most people diagnosed with it still undergo aggressive treatment and all but a fraction of a percentage still die before the 5-year mark--and mind you they are taking real drugs that actually do something, not placebos.

ALS is another disease. That has a fatality rate of nearly 100%. Very few people with ALS are alive 10 years after diagnosis, even though nearly all of them accept treatment.

Whoosh.  Whoooosh.  Whoooooosh.

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6 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

After the first shot of the Pfizer, I got a lower back cramp that was so bad I could hardly walk. Lasted maybe ten hours total...most of a typical day...then went away as quick as it came. That was about it on the side effects. 

Second shot comes tomorrow morning. Wife keeps worrying about side effects LOL. I mean a LOT of worrying. I finally told her:

"Well what's better? Some side effects, or DEATH?" (from Covid) I kind of laughed. She stopped complaining. 

According to Google this morning:

  • US infections:          28.4M
  • US infection fatalities: 506K

For the vaccines:

  • US doses given:       66.5M
  • US fully vaccinated:  20.6M
  • US vaccination fatalities: ?

I prefer to take my chances with the vaccine.

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Apparently nursing home deaths have dropped quite a bit.

The NYT "Morning Update" e-mail says they've gone down 60% from late December to early February.
And it's primarily because the residents were among the first to get the vaccine.

I said a while back that I was rather 'vaccine shy', and was perfectly happy to be towards the back of the line for it. That I would likely change my mind by the time my turn came.

Still not my turn, but I'm now very willing to take the shot. 
No deaths from vaccine side effects that I've heard of. Serious side effects are rare and usually accompanied by underlying allergies. 
More importantly, while there are people who've been vaccinated getting sick, it's very few and virtually NONE of them have been hospitalized or died.

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20 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

You have no understanding of what a placebo is or its effects.It is far beyond positive thinking.

A lighter understanding.

A deeper understanding.

Funny considering I am fairly confident I am the only person in this entire thread who actually works in a hospital 45 hours a week. Where did you earn your BSN at? Oh, that's right, you dont have one. I know exactly what it is and I also know it's complete bullshit that 'the placebo effect has a cure rate of 30% for all known diseases'. That's flat-out Facebook-meme-level bullshit. 

Edited by Westerly

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15 minutes ago, Westerly said:

Funny considering I am fairly confident I am the only person in this entire thread who actually works in a hospital 45 hours a week. Where did you earn your BSN at? Oh, that's right, you dont have one. I know exactly what it is and I also know it's complete bullshit that 'the placebo effect has a cure rate of 30% for all known diseases'. That's flat-out Facebook-meme-level bullshit. 

So a bachelors degree infers a broader range of medical and scientific knowledge than the PhD's that authored those peer reviewed studies.

Got it.

No wonder so many of your other ideas mesh so closely with the science behind the medicine. Do you have any criticisms against the studies or their authors. Or is this just a ill aimed deflection of attention?

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10 hours ago, Westerly said:

Funny considering I am fairly confident I am the only person in this entire thread who actually works in a hospital 45 hours a week. Where did you earn your BSN at? Oh, that's right, you dont have one. I know exactly what it is and I also know it's complete bullshit that 'the placebo effect has a cure rate of 30% for all known diseases'. That's flat-out Facebook-meme-level bullshit. 

Whooooosh.

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17 hours ago, Westerly said:

Funny considering I am fairly confident I am the only person in this entire thread who actually works in a hospital 45 hours a week. Where did you earn your BSN at? Oh, that's right, you dont have one. I know exactly what it is and I also know it's complete bullshit that 'the placebo effect has a cure rate of 30% for all known diseases'. That's flat-out Facebook-meme-level bullshit. 

In my fine extended family I have a BSN and a MSN who both believe that AIDS was fabricated by big pharma.

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17 hours ago, Westerly said:

Funny considering I am fairly confident I am the only person in this entire thread who actually works in a hospital 45 hours a week.

Well, heck, we have a doctor right here in the US - a real MD, went to medical school, has a practice and everything - who states that endometriosis is caused by demon sperm implanted by a demon who visited the woman in the night.  And that the government is run by alien reptiles.  And that those reptilians are using alien DNA to make an anti-religion vaccine.

Oh, and of course she says that masks don't work.

So she "outranks" you.  Should we listen to her?

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Perhaps its just me but i don't see anything wrong with this! Is this a Canadian thing, i.e. overcompensation? By wrong I mean him traveling to a rich country to get vaccinated. He broke no Canadian nor UAE laws.

"The head of Canada’s biggest public pension fund abruptly resigned from his post shortly after news broke that he avoided the country's sluggish vaccine rollout by traveling to the United Arab Emirates to get a Covid-19 shot.

"Recently, our CEO Mark Machin decided to travel personally to the United Arab Emirates where he arranged to be vaccinated against COVID-19," the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board said in a statement Friday. "After discussions last evening with the Board, Mr. Machin tendered his resignation and it has been accepted."

 

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4 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Perhaps its just me but i don't see anything wrong with this! Is this a Canadian thing, i.e. overcompensation? By wrong I mean him traveling to a rich country to get vaccinated. He broke no Canadian nor UAE laws.

"The head of Canada’s biggest public pension fund abruptly resigned from his post shortly after news broke that he avoided the country's sluggish vaccine rollout by traveling to the United Arab Emirates to get a Covid-19 shot.

"Recently, our CEO Mark Machin decided to travel personally to the United Arab Emirates where he arranged to be vaccinated against COVID-19," the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board said in a statement Friday. "After discussions last evening with the Board, Mr. Machin tendered his resignation and it has been accepted."

 

There is nothing wrong with it. But he is effectively a very senior public servant and the board decided that the optics weren't good.

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3 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

You know, a lot of what's happening now was predicted back in 2003 by Sir Martin Rees at Cambridge University in his book, Our Final Century. (He actually wrote it in 2000, but was released a couple of years later.) It's a book that didn't get the attention it deserved, but it is quite good and VERY accurate. 

He means THIS century, by the way. But he did hit a lot of things on the head pretty well. 

He predicted pandemics would cause us much distress. That a shortage of fresh water would end up being the world's number one problem for more than half the world population. Also, that nuclear war was unlikely but that terrorists blasting off a dirty bomb was VERY likely. He also said that the real problem with climate change wasn't so much the weather changes, but that it would cause mass migration of people...and wars would follow as a result. 

One of the bottom line points in his book was that the human race had no better than a fifty-fifty chance of reaching the year 2100 without a major extinction event. Not that everyone would die, just a LOT of people. 

His speech of the same name had the ouroboros behind his lectern. I loved that. Well, he may already be part right considering the numbers of brain dead people.

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It now looks like the vaccine supply in the US is poised to take off. By the end of March there will be enough that capacity to administer the shots to people will become the most limiting factor. Most likely by the end of April lack of willing participants will take over that role. It appears Canada is likely to be about 30 days behind that curve.

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