covid-19

[Phil1111 908]

2 hours ago, mistercwood said:

Found a tweet response yesterday that pretty much perfectly sums up the rage and frustration for these people:

Agree, Dr. Fauci laid it out perfectly. Don't travel for thanksgiving and about eight million said F*&k to that. So there will be a thanks(for me)giving(now I'll give it to you) wave. A x-mas family wave, a new years party wave.

Until there is a second needle into those who trust science. There will be wave after wave. For those who are anti-vaxers, anti-science, etc. This time next year there will still be dozens a day dying.

The Covid freedom sounds like gun control freedom logic.

[yoink 321]

10 hours ago, Westerly said:

 

Humans in general do a really bad job of forgoing short term benefits for long term gain, even in cases where the short term benefit to risk ratio is not appropriate. It's just complacency plain and simple. People think, oh Covid may be bad, but that would never happen to ME, so I am okay and I can travel and ignore all the rules. They might be right, but there are also millions who learned the hard way that they were quite wrong. There are also still a lot of people who think it's just overblown BS. One of my coworkers is super adamate that Covid is just a fake flu that is rarely harmful, even though this person is clearly in the high risk group. Unfortunately, sometimes the hard way is the only way.

It’s weird to me. Growing up in the UK I heard stories from my grandparents about what it was like for civilians in WWII. Rationing. Blackouts. Travel restrictions. Air raids. All that stuff.

They SACRIFICED as a country. They had to, and they got through it. Whereas our country isn’t willing to just suck up wearing a mask and maybe not traveling for the holidays for a single year... Its really not a lot to ask in the big scheme of things.

[wmw999 2,117]

17 minutes ago, yoink said:

They SACRIFICED as a country. They had to, and they got through it. Whereas our country isn’t willing to just suck up wearing a mask and maybe not traveling for the holidays for a single year... Its really not a lot to ask in the big scheme of things.

When the US invaded Iraq (still pisses me off), we were told "go about your usual business -- that shows we're winning." I can think of no worse message to send, but I think it started with all the "I DESERVE (whatever)" that led to credit crunches, housing bubbles, and now the "I wanna stay open." In a war, we're sending young people off to shoot other people, and be shot at. If that doesn't deserve some thought from us, we're so very wrong.

There's a pandemic; it's real. People might honestly have varying needs (I have teenaged nieces -- so we had been bubbling until one went back to in-school classes), but just as yielding and respect are things you give, not demand, so is consideration.

We're just not good as a species at giving consideration to people we don't normally consider -- in the past, it's been minorities, women, etc. And that's roiling all kinds of social stuff.

Wendy P.

[Phil1111 908]

1 hour ago, yoink said:

It’s weird to me. Growing up in the UK I heard stories from my grandparents about what it was like for civilians in WWII. Rationing. Blackouts. Travel restrictions. Air raids. All that stuff.

They SACRIFICED as a country. They had to, and they got through it. Whereas our country isn’t willing to just suck up wearing a mask and maybe not traveling for the holidays for a single year... Its really not a lot to ask in the big scheme of things.

Its called Leadership:

[JoeWeber 2,294]

1 hour ago, yoink said:

It’s weird to me. Growing up in the UK I heard stories from my grandparents about what it was like for civilians in WWII. Rationing. Blackouts. Travel restrictions. Air raids. All that stuff.

They SACRIFICED as a country. They had to, and they got through it. Whereas our country isn’t willing to just suck up wearing a mask and maybe not traveling for the holidays for a single year... Its really not a lot to ask in the big scheme of things.

Maybe if we were being bombarded by V-1 Rockets instead of lies and intentional misinformation things would be different.

[billvon 2,384]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Maybe if we were being bombarded by V-1 Rockets instead of lies and intentional misinformation things would be different.

Unless Trump had some investments with Germany.  Then they'd be big, beautiful freedom bombs that only killed inner city thugs who were too dumb to take cover.  Sure, sometimes maybe they kill innocent people, but what about her emails?  They led to dead people mumble mumble Benghazi.   Anyone who says killing people is bad but Hillary's deadly emails are OK is a hypocrite!

(BTW the V-1's were jet powered unmanned airplanes, the V-2's were the rockets)

[JoeWeber 2,294]

23 minutes ago, billvon said:

Unless Trump had some investments with Germany.  Then they'd be big, beautiful freedom bombs that only killed inner city thugs who were too dumb to take cover.  Sure, sometimes maybe they kill innocent people, but what about her emails?  They led to dead people mumble mumble Benghazi.   Anyone who says killing people is bad but Hillary's deadly emails are OK is a hypocrite!

(BTW the V-1's were jet powered unmanned airplanes, the V-2's were the rockets)

Yes, well, I'm not a Rocket Scientist. I'm an unmanned scientist.

[kallend 1,621]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Yes, well, I'm not a Rocket Scientist. I'm an unmanned scientist.

As a former consultant to Rockwell International on the Space Shuttle engines, I guess that does make me a rocket scientist (in addition to being a nuclear scientist).

[JoeWeber 2,294]

2 hours ago, kallend said:

As a former consultant to Rockwell International on the Space Shuttle engines, I guess that does make me a rocket scientist (in addition to being a nuclear scientist).

Were you the "O" ring guy?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Were you the "O" ring guy?

That was the Solid Rocket Booster (SRB), and those were made by Morton Thiokol. 

[JoeWeber 2,294]

14 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

That was the Solid Rocket Booster (SRB), and those were made by Morton Thiokol. 

I'm aware. The thing is we're just starting to get to the bottom of things here. Rocket Scientist, Nuclear Aerialist, who knows what he's been up to at this point. Inquiring minds, right?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

22 hours ago, nwt said:

Well, it looks like we might be over the hump. So there's that, at least.

Hopefully it isn't some weird testing artifact related to the holiday.

 

I hate to tell you, but it's almost certainly a 'weird artifact'. At least here in the US. 

There was very little testing done over the holiday weekend*.
So new positives dropped dramatically.

They're already trending back up in Wisconsin. We set a new record for deaths today here. 

 

* - In Wisconsin, one of the strange aspects of this whole thing is how the testing gets turned into results (not sure how it happens in other places, but it may well be similar) . The tests are taken, then processed. That processing can take anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks. Those processed tests are then released as results. 
Because of this, any 'positive results' released (say) today could come from a test taken any time in the last 2 weeks. 

So any sort of 'trend' that shows up in the test results has to take this into account. 

Also, some labs report test results 7 days a week, some only do it 5 (weekdays). So the numbers from the weekend are always lower than the weekdays. What makes it even 'funnier' is that the results are reported to the state in the evening, and the DHS releases them the next afternoon. So the numbers released on Monday are actually from Sunday night. So the 'low weekend numbers' are the ones released on Sunday & Monday.
I have a FB friend who has been taking the state DHS numbers and putting them on paper as a series of graphs. The ability to spot trends on those graphs vs trying to follow the daily numbers is amazing. 

[kallend 1,621]

4 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Were you the "O" ring guy?

That was Thiokol.  I did work for Rockwell.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

23 minutes ago, kallend said:

That was Thiokol.  I did work for Rockwell.

Thanks. I was being an unclear comedian.

[nwt 131]

16 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I hate to tell you, but it's almost certainly a 'weird artifact'. At least here in the US. 

There was very little testing done over the holiday weekend*.
So new positives dropped dramatically.

Crap, you're right. Positivity rate has skyrocketed over the past week.

[gowlerk 1,903]

14 hours ago, kallend said:

That was Thiokol.  I did work for Rockwell.

Nobody wants to be associated with Thiokol. They take the blame in the public eye. But the fact is their people warned NASA and tried to stop the launch. But they would not listen.

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Nobody wants to be associated with Thiokol. They take the blame in the public eye. But the fact is their people warned NASA and tried to stop the launch. But they would not listen.

That's too simplistic. Morton-Thiokol engineers warned Morton-Thiokol managers of potential O-ring concerns many times before the fatal launch and management ignored them and whitewashed their recommendations, just as Nasa management ignored and whitewashed Nasa engineers' concerns. On the day, after a Morton-Thiokol engineer recommended scrapping the launch, the decision to proceed was a joint one at management level between both Nasa and Morton-Thiokol. Thiokol failed institutionally at applying their own safety rules just the same as Nasa did, and ultimately they were the ones who designed, manufactured and supplied the defective part in the first place.

[nwt 131]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

 ultimately they were the ones who designed, manufactured and supplied the defective part in the first place.

Was the part defective? I thought it was just a matter of the outside temperature being outside the intended range.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

4 hours ago, nwt said:

Crap, you're right. Positivity rate has skyrocketed over the past week.

Yup.

I was tired and in a hurry.

I left out the part that, here in WI percentage of positive tests has gone up, while total test numbers went down over the holiday weekend (in part due to less people getting tests, in part due to some of the labs not processing tests that were sampled prior to the holiday). 

Europe may be seeing actual declines. They don't have a holiday at this time, and they have been imposing stricter measures to slow the spread.
Those seem to be having a positive effect (ya know, less 'positive' tests is a positive effect). 

But here in the 'good ole USA', behaviors are pretty much unchanged. Some places are trying to impose stricter measures, but there's a hell of a lot of resistance. It doesn't help that those in charge, those imposing those restrictions, are completely failing to follow their own rules. Go figure.

Also, lots of people are insisting they have the 'right' to gather as many family members together, unmasked while eating, up close and personal. 

Many will also find they have the 'right' to become sick. And to die.

[jakee 1,254]

11 minutes ago, nwt said:

Was the part defective? I thought it was just a matter of the outside temperature being outside the intended range.

That exacerbated an existing problem with the design of the booster. An excerpt from Wiki:

 

As originally designed by Thiokol, the O-ring joints in the SRBs were supposed to close more tightly due to forces generated at ignition, but a 1977 test showed that when pressurized water was used to simulate the effects of booster combustion, the metal parts bent away from each other, opening a gap through which gases could leak. This phenomenon, known as "joint rotation", caused a momentary drop in air pressure. This made it possible for combustion gases to erode the O-rings. In the event of widespread erosion, a flame path could develop, causing the joint to burst—which would have destroyed the booster and the shuttle.^[9]:118

Engineers at the Marshall Space Flight Center wrote to the manager of the Solid Rocket Booster project, George Hardy, on several occasions suggesting that Thiokol's field joint design was unacceptable. For example, one engineer suggested that joint rotation would render the secondary O-ring useless, but Hardy did not forward these memos to Thiokol, and the field joints were accepted for flight in 1980.^[10]

Evidence of serious O-ring erosion was present as early as the second space shuttle mission, STS-2, which was flown by Columbia. Contrary to NASA regulations, the Marshall Center did not report this problem to senior management at NASA, but opted to keep the problem within their reporting channels with Thiokol. Even after the O-rings were redesignated as "Criticality 1"—meaning that their failure would result in the destruction of the Orbiter, no one at Marshall suggested that the shuttles be grounded until the flaw could be fixed.^[10]

After the 1984 launch of STS-41-D, flown by Discovery, the first occurrence of hot gas "blow-by" was discovered beyond the primary O-ring. In the post-flight analysis, Thiokol engineers found that the amount of blow-by was relatively small and had not impinged upon the secondary O-ring, and concluded that for future flights, the damage was an acceptable risk. However, after the Challenger disaster, Thiokol engineer Brian Russell identified this event as the first "big red flag" regarding O-ring safety.^[11]

By 1985, with seven of nine shuttle launches that year using boosters displaying O-ring erosion or hot gas blow-by,^[12] Marshall and Thiokol realized that they had a potentially catastrophic problem on their hands. Perhaps most concerning was the launch of STS-51-B in April 1985, flown by Challenger, in which the worst O-ring damage to date was discovered in post-flight analysis. The primary O-ring of the left nozzle had been eroded so extensively that it had failed to seal, and for the first time hot gases had eroded the secondary O-ring.^[13] They began the process of redesigning the joint with three inches (76 mm) of additional steel around the tang. This tang would grip the inner face of the joint and prevent it from rotating. They did not call for a halt to shuttle flights until the joints could be redesigned, but rather treated the problem as an acceptable flight risk. For example, Lawrence Mulloy, Marshall's manager for the SRB project since 1982, issued and waived launch constraints for six consecutive flights. Thiokol even went as far as to persuade NASA to declare the O-ring problem "closed".^[10] General Donald Kutyna, a member of the Rogers Commission, later likened this situation to an airline permitting one of its planes to continue to fly despite evidence that one of its wings was about to fall off.

[tonyhays 86]

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Yup.

I was tired and in a hurry.

I left out the part that, here in WI percentage of positive tests has gone up, while total test numbers went down over the holiday weekend (in part due to less people getting tests, in part due to some of the labs not processing tests that were sampled prior to the holiday). 

Europe may be seeing actual declines. They don't have a holiday at this time, and they have been imposing stricter measures to slow the spread.
Those seem to be having a positive effect (ya know, less 'positive' tests is a positive effect). 

But here in the 'good ole USA', behaviors are pretty much unchanged. Some places are trying to impose stricter measures, but there's a hell of a lot of resistance. It doesn't help that those in charge, those imposing those restrictions, are completely failing to follow their own rules. Go figure.

Also, lots of people are insisting they have the 'right' to gather as many family members together, unmasked while eating, up close and personal. 

Many will also find they have the 'right' to become sick. And to die.

200,000+ new cases today.

Surpassed 100,000 hospitalizations

2800+ dead

 

 

 

[kallend 1,621]

9 hours ago, tonyhays said:

200,000+ new cases today.

Surpassed 100,000 hospitalizations

2800+ dead

 

 

 

Over 3,100 dead yesterday according to CNN

 

But they were going to die anyway, right,  nothing to see here.

[Phil1111 908]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Over 3,100 dead yesterday according to CNN

 

But they were going to die anyway, right,  nothing to see here.

Federal Officials Project 450,000 Dead in U.S. by February

Deaths by Country

United States WW II

United States

416,800

418,500

[ryoder 1,381]

4 hours ago, kallend said:

Over 3,100 dead yesterday according to CNN

But they were going to die anyway, right,  nothing to see here.

So we are now exceeding the deaths in 9/11 (2,977),  every day.

[billvon 2,384]

1 hour ago, ryoder said:

So we are now exceeding the deaths in 9/11 (2,977),  every day.

And Trump is still denying it.

About a month ago the director of a Nevada hospital took a picture of an overflow ward they had just finished setting up in a parking lot to handle all the COVID patients they were expecting.  (As of today they have 42 patients in the ward.)  The hospital director tweeted it out a few days ago and captioned the photo "I want to thank all the incredible staff who are Fighting the Good Fight to help all those suffering from COVID-19.  With 5 deaths in the last 32 hours, everyone is struggling to keep their head-up. Stay strong."

A Trump supporter saw it, captured the picture and tweeted it out with the note "Here is the fake Nevada parking garage hospital picture that our moron governor tweeted, proving it’s all a scam.  No patients, folded up beds, wrapped up equipment that’s never been used! They spent millions on this scam and never seen a single patient in this fake hospital!"

Trump saw this and retweeted it with the note "Fake election results in Nevada, also! "