jakee 1,254 #3451 October 24, 2020 5 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said: True enough. Although I think what's going on now far exceeds the level of previous voter intimidation. This is the first time in (recent) American history where armed civilian groups have threatened to show up at polling places. It's the first time it's happened recently because it's the first election since the court ordered ban on the GOP doing it expired. So they're imediately going to do it again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_Security_Task_Force Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lippy 771 #3452 October 24, 2020 13 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said: If you don't remember anything else twenty years from now, you will remember that Thanksgiving and Christmas 2020 were the worst you ever endured. Let's hope so! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westerly 61 #3453 October 24, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said: The entire country is under a huge amount of stress. Will you get sick and die taking a five dollar bill from some clerk in change? Will you catch Covid by picking up an item at the grocery store that was touched a few minutes ago by someone else? The answer is no. This has already been looked into and the CDC found that people do not get sick by touching objects that were previously touched by the infected. The primary means of infection is respiratory droplets exhaled from infected people. Other mediums of infection are nearly non-existent. For example, there is not been one single documented COVID case involving someone getting sick by eating COVID-contaminated food despite all the news about people working in warehouses and processing lines getting sick. If no one tried to do anything about it, if no one wore masks at all, no one social distanced, the death toll would probably be over a million dead by now...easily. Yes, but that's kind of presenting a defense for assault as 'well I could have killed the guy, but I didn't'. That's not a real argument the same as saying 'we could have done nothing but we dident' is not a real defense for doing a poor job managing COVID. Edited October 24, 2020 by Westerly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westerly 61 #3454 October 24, 2020 14 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said: My comment at Facebook today, regarding the pandemic aka 'Food For Thought'. Anyone who isn't wearing a mask when they leave their home is a fool, at least right now. You roll the dice, you takes your chances. Just try not to take anyone with you. I wouldent say they are a fool, more like they are just being disrespectful and uncaring. A mask doesent do much to protect YOU from COVID, unless it's an N-95 that has been properly fitted and seal tested, and even then it only offers some protection as the virus is smaller than the the minimum size particle the mask is rated to stop. The point of a mask is to stop you from infecting others, which is why not wearing one implies you dont care about other people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,382 #3455 October 24, 2020 1 minute ago, Westerly said: I wouldent say they are a fool, more like they are just being disrespectful and uncaring. A mask doesent do much to protect YOU from COVID, unless it's an N-95 that has been properly fitted and seal tested, and even then it only offers some protection as the virus is smaller than the the minimum size particle the mask is rated to stop. The point of a mask is to stop you from infecting others, which is why not wearing one implies you dont care about other people. See this: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olofscience 420 #3456 October 24, 2020 11 minutes ago, Westerly said: The answer is no. This has already been looked into and the CDC found that people do not get sick by touching objects that were previously touched by the infected. The primary means of infection is respiratory droplets exhaled from infected people. Other mediums of infection are nearly non-existent. I used to think this was correct, unfortunately there have now been confirmed cases of surface transmission of covid-19: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/427446/rubbish-bin-the-likely-source-of-covid-infection There has also been a study that covid-19 particles survive longer on surfaces than influenza viruses: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54500673 2 minutes ago, Westerly said: A mask doesent do much to protect YOU from COVID, unless it's an N-95 that has been properly fitted and seal tested, and even then it only offers some protection as the virus is smaller than the the minimum size particle the mask is rated to stop. I also used to think this, but this is now outdated as we've had more studies come out: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7277485/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #3457 October 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, olofscience said: I used to think this was correct, unfortunately there have now been confirmed cases of surface transmission of covid-19: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/427446/rubbish-bin-the-likely-source-of-covid-infection There has also been a study that covid-19 particles survive longer on surfaces than influenza viruses: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54500673 Yes, there have been some cases that were transmitted through surface contact. But those cases seem to be in the minority. Unlike influenza and Rhinovirus 'head colds'. It also appears that the 'viral load' one takes in is a factor in how sick one gets. Taking in a large amount of the virus seems to be a factor in suffering a more serious case of the disease. Taking in a smaller dose seems to be a factor in milder cases. Note: I use 'seems to be' and 'appears' because there's very little actual proof of anything with this disease. Virtually zero genuine scientific studies. Not surprising considering we've known that the virus exists for less than a year. Look at how long it took to realize that the AIDS virus even existed, let alone get a handle on how it was transmitted, what it did and how to fight it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #3458 October 24, 2020 The problem with the comparison with AIDS is that to a large degree, AIDS was something that had not been seen before. It did things that no other virus had been known to do. The fact that it attacked a marginalized segment of the population didn't help. It wasn't until AIDS entered the blood supply and began affecting 'regular' people that it got the attention really needed to figure it out. Yes, "The Band Played On" is an excellent movie. OTOH, the coronavirus is a fairly standard pneumonia causing virus. We know of other corona viruses. Some cause the common cold, similar to rhino viruses. Some affect livestock. We have good ideas on how it spreads. We are learning to treat it. There's a lot still to learn, and much of what we know is still in the 'hypothesis' phase. Some countries have done a very good job in containing it. The US was likely to see a bad outbreak, no matter who was in charge. The pushback over the quarantine shutdowns, the 'liberty' idiots who refuse to follow good scientific advice, the 'hoax' morons (same ones that are Qcumbers, anti-vaxxers, chemtrails, flat earthers, moon landing hoax, and on and on), those fools pretty much a guaranteed we'd see more cases. But the blatant mishandling by Trump made it far worse than that. I hate him. He's a con man, pure and simple. He's using his position to line his pockets at the expense of the rest of the country. He completely ignores the damage he's done and is doing. He doesn't care about anything or anyone other than himself. And he's conned a large segment of the population into believing his garbage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #3459 October 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said: Personally, I don't hate Trump What's not to hate? He is a thoroughly despicable human being whose incompetence and venality are responsible for more unnecessary deaths than anyone since the Rwanda massacres. More even than Slobodan Milošević. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westerly 61 #3460 October 25, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, ryoder said: See this: I have seen it. I also know there are operational limits to what those masks can do--the manufacturer literately says there are. One of those limits is the masks just arnt really effective at catching particles that are too small which is why they have a technical specification specifically saying what they are designed for and what they are not designed for. The size of the Covid virus falls into the category of not designed for. That said, most of the virus travels in water droplets which are easily caught by an N-95 mask so really only individual virus particles floating around would get by. But even so, most people, even in healthcare settings, cannot correctly fit an N-95 mask on their face so that it does not leak which is the more pertinent problem. They are notoriously difficult to fit correctly and even the slightest movement by bumping it or taking it off and than back on is sufficient to make for an insecure seal. Really, if you're looking for protection against a biological entity, N-95 is like the Geo Metro of options. What you really need is a full CBR suit with an independent air supply taken from an external source. Clearly not practical for daily use so the meet-in-the-middle option would be an actual respirator with the correct cartridges which in the long term isint actually any more expensive than daily throwaway use of an N-95, but they provide better protection as they are MUCH easier to get an airtight seal on. Edited October 25, 2020 by Westerly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,299 #3461 October 25, 2020 2 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said: I agree completely with what you posted after the word 'Note': This situation reminds me a bit of the movie And The Band Played On, the movie with Matthew Modine about the confusion and resistance in the medical community (especially in the San Francisco area) when AIDS first came along. No one knew what the hell it was, or how it was killing so many people. By the way, if you haven't seen the film, it's very good. Less than two weeks until the election, thank God. There are no guarantees that Trump will lose, but Nate Silver is giving him an 13% chance to win and heavily favoring Biden. As far as the US Senate, most scenarios have the Dems at least gaining a tie there, and a very good chance they will get 51-52 seats. They could get more, but that is very unlikely. I guess you take what you can get and be grateful. Trump wouldn't be the first President to get voted out of office solely for the economy. Between rampant inflation and his failure to get the Iranian hostages released, Carter had the same thing happen to him. And Trump is WAY less popular than Carter ever was. Personally, I don't hate Trump although it is tempting to do so. I just think he isn't up to the job, and never was. Of course there is the lying...his criminal friends...his lack of empathy for other human beings...it's a big list. Rest your weary mind, I'll hate him enough for the both of us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,299 #3462 October 25, 2020 13 minutes ago, Westerly said: That said, most of the virus travels in water droplets which are easily caught by an N-95 mask so really only individual virus particles floating around would get by. That and Brownian Motion should cause a lot of the individual particles to be captured. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #3463 October 25, 2020 Marc Short, chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence, has been diagnosed with Covid-19. Marty Obst, a senior adviser to Pence who is not a government employee, tested positive for coronavirus earlier this week. Meanwhile, despite Pence being in close contact with Short as recently as Friday, the vice president plans to continue campaigning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #3464 October 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Westerly said: I have seen it. I also know there are operational limits to what those masks can do--the manufacturer literately says there are. One of those limits is the masks just arnt really effective at catching particles that are too small which is why they have a technical specification specifically saying what they are designed for and what they are not designed for. The size of the Covid virus falls into the category of not designed for. No simple mask stops viral particles. They stop respiratory droplets. That's how they work, and that's what they are designed to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #3465 October 25, 2020 Trump has been saying, over and over, that we have turned the corner. I guess he's right -- after you turn the corner enough times, you are back where you started. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #3466 October 25, 2020 2 hours ago, headoverheels said: Trump has been saying, over and over, that we have turned the corner. I guess he's right -- after you turn the corner enough times, you are back where you started. He went round the bend a long time ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #3467 October 25, 2020 “You have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero." February 26, 2020. 83,718 new cases yesterday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigfalls 110 #3468 October 25, 2020 I posted this earlier this year and thought I would post it again. If you didn't read it earlier, you may be interested. I was wondering what happened to the virus that caused the Spanish flu in 1918 and found an interesting article. In the article, they dug up two bodies at different times in Alaska that had been buried and frozen in permafrost and took samples of lung tissue. It is a long article but worth reading. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/reconstruction-1918-virus.html 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lippy 771 #3469 October 25, 2020 23 minutes ago, Bigfalls said: I posted this earlier this year and thought I would post it again. If you didn't read it earlier, you may be interested. I was wondering what happened to the virus that caused the Spanish flu in 1918 and found an interesting article. In the article, they dug up two bodies at different times in Alaska that had been buried and frozen in permafrost and took samples of lung tissue. It is a long article but worth reading. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/reconstruction-1918-virus.html Here's a link to a podcast discussing this same history in case anybody's interested: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/brhv724/hunting-an-invisible-killer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olofscience 420 #3470 October 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bigfalls said: I was wondering what happened to the virus that caused the Spanish flu in 1918 and found an interesting article. The 1918 pandemic killed lots of people, then mysteriously "disappeared". The RNA polymerase in influenza viruses is error-prone so mutation rates are fast - the 1918 virus mutated in 2 critical sites and became a lot less deadly, so it actually didn't disappear - it just became the regular flu (the H1N1 family that we still have today). Why? Viruses actually face selection pressure to become less deadly, as if they kill their hosts too quickly they won't be able to reproduce as effectively. This is what happened to the Spanish flu. However, for Covid-19, the RNA polymerase in the coronavirus has better "proof-reading" mechanisms, so mutation rate is much slower. Sequencing the genome from the start of the covid-19 outbreak to now there's only been minimal change. So if we want to wait for this virus to become less deadly like the 1918 one, we're going to have to wait a LONG time. The upside is, since mutation rates are much slower, it should be easier to target with a vaccine and drugs. Unfortunately no vaccines or drug treatments have ever been developed for coronaviruses, so scientists are in new territory here. As destructive as Covid-19 is, it won't be the last pandemic. It's not a matter of if, but when. If we don't learn from this, the next one could be much worse. And when the next one comes, would you want Trump to be the one leading the country again? Edited October 25, 2020 by olofscience Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #3471 October 25, 2020 1 hour ago, olofscience said: ... Unfortunately no vaccines or drug treatments have ever been developed for coronaviruses, so scientists are in new territory here... As destructive as Covid-19 is, it won't be the last pandemic. It's not a matter of if, but when. If we don't learn from this, the next one could be much worse. That's not strictly true. There are vaccines against coronaviruses... For animals. https://coronavirusexplained.ukri.org/en/article/vdt0010/ Interestingly, one of the things mentioned in the article is that corona can develop into FIP. That's long been a 'death sentence' for cats. Recently, a shelter that I support had a cat with FIP. They went to a lot of effort (and not a little expense) to treat the little guy and he's considered 'recovered'. And of course this won't be the last pandemic. We knew there was another pandemic coming for a while now. SARS, Avian flu, H1N1 (Swine flu), Ebola, ect. All of those were warnings that we had to take these kinds of outbreaks seriously. That's why the CDC developed plans to fight them. That's why there was a task force designed to implement those plans. That's why there was a 'playbook' for them. You know, all the assets & resources that Trump shit canned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,382 #3472 October 25, 2020 And I thought I was disgusted by "emotional support" animals. Travellers using Photoshopped Covid test certificates to board flights as travel agents ‘sell negative results for £150’ https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/13012583/travellers-photoshop-covid-test/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #3473 October 25, 2020 16 hours ago, headoverheels said: Marc Short, chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence, has been diagnosed with Covid-19. Marty Obst, a senior adviser to Pence who is not a government employee, tested positive for coronavirus earlier this week. Meanwhile, despite Pence being in close contact with Short as recently as Friday, the vice president plans to continue campaigning. Apparently it's OK for Pence to violate CDC guidelines because he is "an essential worker". His "work" is just political campaigning this week. White House Chief of Staff Meadows admitted this morning that the administration has basically given up on trying to conatin COVID-19. “You have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero." February 26, 2020. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #3474 October 25, 2020 1 hour ago, kallend said: Apparently it's OK for Pence to violate CDC guidelines because he is "an essential worker". His "work" is just political campaigning this week. White House Chief of Staff Meadows admitted this morning that the administration has basically given up on trying to conatin COVID-19. “You have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero." February 26, 2020. Well, with Wisconsin in the grip of a very large increase in cases (new cases 7 day average topped 4k), the Republican led legislature is in 'Full Denial" mode. https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/23/wisconsin-republican-lawmakers-aides-facing-covid-19-outbreak/3692961001/?for-guid=238f4265-c25f-4890-ba87-228c994157f7&itm_source=jsonline-Coronavirus Watch&itm_medium=email&itm_campaign=baseline_greeting&itm_term=list_article_thumb&fbclid=IwAR28Ec8oPQnvY1gmiPQqGLr_prCoEu6ZxXClUU2tKffXTHav4b0pZFbv4FI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bigfalls 110 #3475 October 25, 2020 7 hours ago, lippy said: Here's a link to a podcast discussing this same history in case anybody's interested: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/brhv724/hunting-an-invisible-killer I listened to the podcast, thanks for posting it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites