covid-19

[turtlespeed 212]

Just now, turtlespeed said:

Go back and re read what I said.

It left MORE with the inability to AFFORD coverage anymore.

Look at the uptick in your image.  That trend continued.

People held onto what they could until they couldn't sustain the increases that the ACA made inevitable.

The ones it helped the most were the insurance companies.

 

BUT - by all means lets keep distracting from fact that the left was perfectly OK that some of the people ended up with hardship so they could get what they wanted.

[Westerly 61]

There are a few things the ACA did that were really quite important and badly needed fixing. The first was coverage for preexisting conditions. Prior to ACA, there was a one year wait on coverage for preexisting conditions for anyone who obtained a new plan. That meant that if you changed jobs or lost your job, and you had a preexisting condition (which is everyone eventually) you had absolutely no coverage for it for a year. That was a very serious problem. There are many conditions that are perfectly fine if they are treated but become life threatening if you stop treatment.

The other issue was the lack of coverage for out of network ER visits. Prior to the ACA, ER visits were usually only covered if you went in network. If you went to an out of network ER, you coverage was 0%. That is clearly a problem as no one can figure out if a particular ER is in network or not during an actual emergency. This meant that millions of so-called 'fully insured' Americans ended up declaring bankruptcy over ER bills. It was (and still is) the #1 cause of bankruptcy in the USA.

The ACA was not perfect for everyone, but it fixed some problems that very badly needed fixing. Many of the people who had insurance plans pre-ACA and then found they suddenly could no longer afford their new plan under the ACA had a plan that was total crap to begin with. The ACA's minimum coverage requirements meant a lot of the cheap, affordable plans went away because those plans were basically total scams that had a list of exclusions that were an encyclopedia long with massive deductibles and copayments to the point that they basically covered absolutely nothing short of regular doctor office visits. In those cases, you were fooling yourself thinking you had health insurance--you dident. The ACA outlawed those types of plans with its minimum coverage requirements.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Westerly

[airdvr 197]

...to be replaced with plans with huge deductibles.  Just like your ambulance ride to the ER the deductibles on most ACA plans mean they might as well not have insurance.  So in reality ACA moved millions of people into high deductible insurance plans and told them it was insurance.

Nice scam.

[gowlerk 1,903]

16 minutes ago, airdvr said:

...to be replaced with plans with huge deductibles.  Just like your ambulance ride to the ER the deductibles on most ACA plans mean they might as well not have insurance.  So in reality ACA moved millions of people into high deductible insurance plans and told them it was insurance.

Nice scam.

The whole US healthcare insurance system is so patently ridiculous that the world shakes its head in amazement that the people tolerate it. The only explanation for it is your related tolerance for corporations owning your politicians.

[billvon 2,380]

37 minutes ago, airdvr said:

...to be replaced with plans with huge deductibles.  Just like your ambulance ride to the ER the deductibles on most ACA plans mean they might as well not have insurance.

ACA capped out of pocket expenses.  For 2020 that's $8000 for one person.  So no, an ambulance ride (or even chemo or a kidney transplant) won't bankrupt you - even if you choose a plan with huge deductibles.

And an ambulance ride isn't going to bankrupt you anyway.  I bet even you could afford $600 - the cost of an ambulance ride in CA.

[airdvr 197]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

ACA capped out of pocket expenses.  For 2020 that's $8000 for one person.  So no, an ambulance ride (or even chemo or a kidney transplant) won't bankrupt you - even if you choose a plan with huge deductibles.

And an ambulance ride isn't going to bankrupt you anyway.  I bet even you could afford $600 - the cost of an ambulance ride in CA.

I always love when you try to tell me that the folks who couldn't afford health insurance before ACA can afford an $8,000 deductible.  That's funny...

[gowlerk 1,903]

3 minutes ago, billvon said:

I bet even you could afford $600 - the cost of an ambulance ride in CA.

His wife is a health care professional. He has good insurance for himself.  Most of the right wingers feel that is good enough and those who lack coverage don't deserve it for one reason or another.

[billvon 2,380]

3 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I always love when you try to tell me that the folks who couldn't afford health insurance before ACA can afford an $8,000 deductible.  That's funny...

If they don't like it they can choose a plan with a lower deductible, and a lower cap.  It will cost them more, of course.

Why not let people choose on their own?

[airdvr 197]

I have a plan that has a $5,000 deductible.  It costs us $497 per month.  So in reality I have a deductible of $10,964.  The myth that people in the medical field have better insurance is just that.  That type of coverage is reserved for government workers.

[airdvr 197]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

If they don't like it they can choose a plan with a lower deductible, and a lower cap.  It will cost them more, of course.

Why not let people choose on their own?

They already had the choice and chose not to pay for insurance.

[Westerly 61]

46 minutes ago, airdvr said:

...to be replaced with plans with huge deductibles.  Just like your ambulance ride to the ER the deductibles on most ACA plans mean they might as well not have insurance.  So in reality ACA moved millions of people into high deductible insurance plans and told them it was insurance.

Nice scam.

There is a limit to the deductible that a plan can have under the ACA. Prior to that there was no limit. Prior to ACA it was common to have plans with a $5,000 - $10,000 annual deductible and copayments of $20,000 before 100% coverage kicked in. . Plans like that don't exist anymore. The ACA caps the annual maximum out of pocket limit to $8,850 for an individual (deductible + out of pocket copayments).

[Westerly 61]

10 minutes ago, airdvr said:

The myth that people in the medical field have better insurance is just that. 

Then maybe you need to find a new employer. my spouse works for a hospital. She gets free health insurance, it had no deductible and no copayment for anything except medication. I am on her plan and I only pay $30 a month and I have no copayment and my annual deductible is $500.

Even when I had a $10 an hour job I got free health insurance as an employee benefit which had a $2,500 deductible but had no copayments.

Prior to marriage I had a plan which cost me $93 a month through my employer, It had a $1k deductible and 70/30 copayment split (favored to me) with max OOP of $2,500.

So I'd say if you're getting stuck which such a shit plan as a health care professional you might not be working for the best employer.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Westerly

[gowlerk 1,903]

4 minutes ago, airdvr said:

The myth that people in the medical field have better insurance is just that.  That type of coverage is reserved for government workers.

Sorry, it is even worse than I thought. Again, I do not understand why people accept it.

[airdvr 197]

I'm going to have to disagree with your "common" statement.

[airdvr 197]

1 minute ago, Westerly said:

Then maybe you need to find a new employer. my wife works for a hospital. She gets free health insurance, it had no deductible and no copayment for anything. I am on her plan and I only pay $30 a month and I have no copayment and my annual deductible is $500.

Glad to hear you're doing fine.

[Westerly 61]

5 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Glad to hear you're doing fine.

So what was it like prior to the ACA for you? Lower deductible with lower premiums? For most people that was not the case. But even then, are you comparing apples to apples? Probably not. I had one of those plans. $1000 deductible and only cost $50 a month. But when you actually read the policy it basically covered absolutely nothing and what it did cover was at such a massively low amount that you'd end up getting balance billed for the care and the insurance company would probably only cover 20% of the bill. Cheap and quality never go hand in hand.

[airdvr 197]

Honestly don't recall the specifics but I can remember that it was a significant jump.

[headoverheels 291]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

I have a plan that has a $5,000 deductible.  It costs us $497 per month.  So in reality I have a deductible of $10,964.  The myth that people in the medical field have better insurance is just that.  That type of coverage is reserved for government workers.

Does your wife have an HSA?   Does her employer contribute to it?  When my wife worked for a medical device company, she had a moderate deductible (something in the $2500 range, can't remember exactly), but her employer contributed to her HSA which effectively significantly cut that deductible to close to the ~$600 range which we were accustomed to in earlier days. 

[billvon 2,380]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

I have a plan that has a $5,000 deductible.  It costs us $497 per month.  So in reality I have a deductible of $10,964.  

No, you have a $5000 deductible and pay $5964 in premiums a year.
 

Quote

They already had the choice and chose not to pay for insurance.

Right, before the ACA passed.  Now they have coverage.  And if they someday need a kidney transplant they will have to pay $8000 for it.  Previously they would have had to pay $400,000 for it.  That's an improvement.

[airdvr 197]

3 minutes ago, billvon said:

No, you have a $5000 deductible and pay $5964 in premiums a year.
 

Right, before the ACA passed.  Now they have coverage.  And if they someday need a kidney transplant they will have to pay $8000 for it.  Previously they would have had to pay $400,000 for it.  That's an improvement.

OK.  I still think $8,000 for most of the people who were formerly uninsured might as well be $8 million.  They won't have the funds to repay it.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

The myth that people in the medical field have better insurance is just that.  That type of coverage is reserved for government workers.

Hi airdvr,

You should back off from such all-encompassing statements.

My medical provider provides a free health plan to its employees.

I'm a retired federal gov't worker and they have a better plan than I do; which is the same plan that I had prior to retirement.

It's all about who's ox is getting gored.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,380]

25 minutes ago, airdvr said:

OK.  I still think $8,000 for most of the people who were formerly uninsured might as well be $8 million.  They won't have the funds to repay it.

But they will be alive to try - which is sort of the point.

And your assumption is incorrect, anyway.  In 2000, 59.5% of people without insurance made more than $20K a year - and could thus likely afford such a once-in-a-lifetime expense.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK223657/

[Westerly 61]

41 minutes ago, billvon said:

No, you have a $5000 deductible and pay $5964 in premiums a year.
 

Right, before the ACA passed.  Now they have coverage.  And if they someday need a kidney transplant they will have to pay $8000 for it.  Previously they would have had to pay $400,000 for it.  That's an improvement.

It sounds like you just have a crap employer then and they are burdening you with the full cost of the plan. Most employers pay for part or most of the plan and the amount the employee pays is a highly subsidized amount. Employers who are charging that much for health insurance are basically just going on health.gov and getting the plan for you and passing the entire cost onto you. That's not a benefit in any capacity. You could easily do that yourself. Health insurance as a benefit is supposed to be a two-pronged approach whereby the employer gets plans for less because they are purchasing many plans for many people and the employer pays for part or most of the plan and the employee's share represents a subsidized amount.

Short of that and you're getting ripped off and your 'benefit' is not a benefit at all. They are just passing the cost onto you. Find a different employer or renegotiate your benefits package. Many/ most employers do better than that. Even minimum wage jobs often offer better health insurance than what it sounds like you're getting.

[airdvr 197]

8 minutes ago, billvon said:

But they will be alive to try - which is sort of the point.

And your assumption is incorrect, anyway.  In 2000, 59.5% of people without insurance made more than $20K a year - and could thus likely afford such a once-in-a-lifetime expense.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK223657/

$20K per year?  That's $384 per week before taxes.  Seriously?

[airdvr 197]

1 minute ago, Westerly said:

It sounds like you just have a crap employer then and they are burdening you with the full cost of the plan. Most employers pay for part or most of the plan and the amount the employee pays is a highly subsidized amount. Employers who are charging that much for health insurance are basically just going on health.gov and getting the plan for you and passing the entire cost onto you. That's not a benefit in any capacity. You could easily do that yourself. Health insurance as a benefit is supposed to be a two-pronged approach whereby the employer gets plans for less because they are purchasing many plans for many people and the employer pays for part or most of the plan and the employee's share represents a subsidized amount.

Short of that and you're getting ripped off and your 'benefit' is not a benefit at all. They are just passing the cost onto you. Find a different employer or renegotiate your benefits package. Many/ most employers do better than that. Even minimum wage jobs often offer better health insurance than what it sounds like you're getting.

Unfortunately my wife works in a facility that is totally funded by Medicaid.  She loves her population and wouldn't change for anything.