covid-19

[turtlespeed 212]

6 hours ago, kallend said:

1.  It was in February, when Trump said "15 cases, soon to be zero" and other hopelessly erroneous remarks.

2. Long ago debunked lies from Trump:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/trump-adds-new-falsehood-to-pelosi-chinatown-claims/

Are you trying to wrestle Stupid Post of the Month from Turtle?

 

Every time you post something like this - I know I get my mail at the address in your head.

Life is amazing.

[gowlerk 1,911]

9 hours ago, airdvr said:

Easy kids.  That wasn't a rhetorical statement.  I'm honestly dumbfounded that people don't know.

I understood you.

[headoverheels 291]

Social distance in the loo.

[kallend 1,623]

The Pro Life party:

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-coronavirus-death-toll-176k-republicans-acceptable-20200823-f2kbkjneajg3vetvpz6ldvpasa-story.html

57% of Republicans find 176,000 coronavirus death toll in the U.S. ‘acceptable:’ poll

[FrancoR 0]

2 hours ago, kallend said:

The Pro Life party:

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-coronavirus-death-toll-176k-republicans-acceptable-20200823-f2kbkjneajg3vetvpz6ldvpasa-story.html

57% of Republicans find 176,000 coronavirus death toll in the U.S. ‘acceptable:’ poll

But you are at 177.000 now

[airdvr 197]

On 8/22/2020 at 4:51 PM, kallend said:

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/trump-adds-new-falsehood-to-pelosi-chinatown-claims/

 

[billvon 2,396]

Trump in March:  "We’re opening up this incredible country. Because we have to do that. I would love to have it open by Easter. I would love to have that. It’s such an important day for other reasons, but I’d love to make it an important day for this. I would love to have the country opened up, and rarin’ to go by Easter. . . .Wouldn’t it be great to have all the churches full?  You’ll have packed churches all over our country … I think it’ll be a beautiful time."

Easter 2020: 1800 deaths, 28,000 new cases

[airdvr 197]

14 minutes ago, billvon said:

Trump in March:  "We’re opening up this incredible country. Because we have to do that. I would love to have it open by Easter. I would love to have that. It’s such an important day for other reasons, but I’d love to make it an important day for this. I would love to have the country opened up, and rarin’ to go by Easter. . . .Wouldn’t it be great to have all the churches full?  You’ll have packed churches all over our country … I think it’ll be a beautiful time."

Easter 2020: 1800 deaths, 28,000 new cases

Yup...that's what he said and he was wrong.  So was Nancy.

[turtlespeed 212]

10 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Yup...that's what he said and he was wrong.  So was Nancy.

Blasphemy!!! Nancy is never wrong!!

[Coreece 190]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

 

If only all of us took it as seriously as Mother Pelosi did. . .

 

I like the guy at 1:12 

[kallend 1,623]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Yup...that's what he said and he was wrong.  So was Nancy.

He is STILL wrong, and in denial too.

[turtlespeed 212]

42 minutes ago, kallend said:

He is STILL wrong, and in denial too.

Was Nancy wrong?

[jakee 1,254]

8 hours ago, airdvr said:

Yup...that's what he said and he was wrong.  So was Nancy.

Pelosi had been right for a long time by then.

[wmw999 2,121]

11 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Was Nancy wrong?

Yes, she was. But she's changed her mind and her tune. Most people make mistakes. It's a measure of their intellectual honesty if they are willing to review their actions and words, and change them. I'm not holding her up as some example of incredibly intellectual honesty, just that holding her to a "no mistakes, ever" standard is not particularly reasonable, either.

Wendy P.

[Coreece 190]

41 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

12 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Was Nancy wrong?

Yes, she was. But she's changed her mind and her tune. Most people make mistakes. It's a measure of their intellectual honesty if they are willing to review their actions and words, and change them. I'm not holding her up as some example of incredibly intellectual honesty, just that holding her to a "no mistakes, ever" standard is not particularly reasonable, either.

But one of the big arguments in hindsight is how leaders should've would've could've taken this more seriously weeks before the WHO designated it as a pandemic and Trump's subsequent declaration of a national emergency that same day.   I mean how many really took it seriously enough to implement drastic and widespread mitigation efforts in the weeks prior?  Even after Trump announced the emergency, people were still bitching about how shutting down the airlines was an overreaction - even the WHO, iirc. 

I don't really think it mattered what he did, people were going to bitch regardless - tho he would've certainly came out on top had he the foresight to take it more seriously earlier on, thus securing his re-election.

 

I'm willing to more or less give him a pass on his initial response at this point - it's how he's dealing with it now that should be the focus of criticism.

One area where I'm not feeling as gracious is with Trump and Bolton breaking up the pandemic response team.  I still haven't looked into specifics of what they actually would've done, but it's a good bet that they would've helped - even if it was just to push the president to act sooner.  But at the same time, many of those people were still working within the NSC,  tho there were conflicting opinions between Beth Cameron and Tim Morrison on what was going on.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

2 hours ago, Coreece said:

I mean how many really took it seriously enough to implement drastic and widespread mitigation efforts in the weeks prior?

China. Which if the team wasn't disbanded would have had American scientists working in their lab in Wuhan.

Obama's administration made lots of mistakes during H1N1. They tried to make sure those mistakes would be learned from. Considering Trump's stated platform is literally to undo everything Obama did, the system implemented to try and learn and do better during the next outbreak was defunded and disbanded.

Between that and Trump's unwillingness or inability to ever consider himself to be wrong has caused immense delays in response. There is absolutely no doubt thousands of people are dead because of that.

[Coreece 190]

13 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

2 hours ago, Coreece said:

I mean how many really took it seriously enough to implement drastic and widespread mitigation efforts in the weeks prior?

China. Which if the team wasn't disbanded would have had American scientists working in their lab in Wuhan.

Ok, so that would be related to that what I was referring to in that last paragraph in my previous post.  I think I read something about that awhile back, iirc.

[kallend 1,623]

5 hours ago, Coreece said:

 

 

I'm willing to more or less give him a pass on his initial response at this point - it's how he's dealing with it now that should be the focus of criticism.

 

CURRENT death rates in the USA are some 5 times higher (or more) than other wealthy nations.  This relates to lack of leadership overall, including the past two months.  Airdvr is picking on one error made by Pelosi 6 months ago while completely ignoring error, prevarication, denial, delay and dissembling by Trump for 6 months continuously.

Edited August 25, 2020 by kallend

[FrancoR 0]

On 8/24/2020 at 10:26 PM, FrancoR said:

But you are at 177.000 now

Oh, it  is 178.000 now

[kallend 1,623]

39 minutes ago, FrancoR said:

Oh, it  is 178.000 now

A thousand here, a thousand there, soon you're talking about a real mess. 

[headoverheels 291]

2 minutes ago, kallend said:

A thousand here, a thousand there, soon you're talking about a real mess. 

Yep.  Still a tiny bit better than I predicted the first week of May, which was 200k by the end of August.

[turtlespeed 212]

9 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Yes, she was. But she's changed her mind and her tune. Most people make mistakes. It's a measure of their intellectual honesty if they are willing to review their actions and words, and change them. I'm not holding her up as some example of incredibly intellectual honesty, just that holding her to a "no mistakes, ever" standard is not particularly reasonable, either.

Wendy P.

I know that and you know that - but, I was asking John.  Specifically John.

I also agree with the rest of what you said.

[mistercwood 287]

1 hour ago, headoverheels said:

Yep.  Still a tiny bit better than I predicted the first week of May, which was 200k by the end of August.

In fairness, to make a call like that 4 months out, with so so many variables involved, and to still get within a ~10% margin of error is actually quite impressive.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

2 hours ago, kallend said:

A thousand here, a thousand there, soon you're talking about a real mess. 

I remember when Republicans were outraged about 4 dead contractors in a violent country.

[turtlespeed 212]

1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

I remember when Republicans were outraged about 4 dead contractors in a violent country.

Damn - that is a great perspective.

What do you think would happen if this was intentional?

I'm pretty sure those deaths you are talking about were intentional murders, right?