covid-19

[yoink 321]

46 minutes ago, billvon said:

As a liberal author recently said, "I don’t know how to explain to someone why they should care about other people."  That may be something that some conservatives are simply incapable of processing.

 

My rights are more important to me than your rights. Conservatism in a nutshell. 

[Westerly 61]

5 hours ago, mistercwood said:

Yes. When dealing with infectious disease, your choices impact on other peoples bodies, so the connection you are trying to make is invalid.

Sure but the counterargument they will make is well no one forced you to be around me. You could just not be here--next to me--then I cant infect you. Most of those who dismiss Covid safety precautions make the argument, 'if you're scared of the virus then just stay home.'

I mean technically that's not in invalid point. You could just stay home. We've all done it to some extent so far this year. The ultimate issue is who the fuck wants to just live in their house forever? eventually we need to get past this and that's never going to happen without infection risk if we're not all on the same page--and we're not in the same book at this point. But hey, people are putting their own self-interests above that of the greater good. Who would have thought? That's only been happening since the birth of humanity.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Westerly

[mistercwood 287]

3 minutes ago, Westerly said:

Sure but the counterargument they will make is well no one forced you to be around me. You could just not be here--next to me--then I cant infect you. Most of those who dismiss Covid safety precautions make the argument, 'if you're scared of the virus then just stay home.'

Those certainly might be the responses they use, but they in no way qualify as counter-arguments... 

[olofscience 420]

Since Turtle didn't really have an argument against my point that positivity rates are not the same as positive test results, we'll just assume he's admitted his mistake in doing that.

However, reports are now out that the White House (DHHS) has ordered hospitals to bypass the CDC on COVID-19 data collection: https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/14/21324688/white-house-covid-19-coronavirus-data-collection-cdc-bypass-trump-hhs

This is probably so they can manipulate the numbers more easily.

However, this order doesn't seem to be that legal:

 

[ryoder 1,381]

COVID-19 is too convenient an excuse for a generation of people to just punt. We don’t do this. We are Americans. In the Spanish flu, ’17, ’18, ’19, 1917, much death. Do you know that there was not one mention of it by the president of the United States at the time, Woodrow Wilson? Never talked about it. There was no national policy to deal with it. There was no shutdown. There was just, “Hey, go outside, get some fresh air, stand in the sun as long as you can, get some vitamin D, feel better.”

It had numerous waves to it. It coincided with World War I, which is what Woodrow Wilson’s concern was. Soldiers going off to war arguably spread one of the waves. But there was no “woe is us.” It was just the next in a long line of things that happened to people that they dealt with, like the Donner party. You’ve heard of the Donner party. Maybe some of you haven’t.

The Donner party, the Donner family and a bunch of travelers trying to get to California over the Sierra Nevada mountain range. They made the mistake of trying to make the trip in the middle of winter. We’re talking the Lake Tahoe region. They get to the peak. It was so bad that they had to turn to cannibalism to survive. That’s what’s noteworthy about the Donner party.

If you read the diaries written by the leaders of the Donner party, the only reference to how cold it was was one sentence: “It was a particularly tough winter.” It’s just what was. They didn’t complain about it because there was nothing they could do. They had to adapt. This is what’s missing. There seems to be no concept of adaptation. There seems to be no understanding in the Millennial generation that we can adapt to this and that we’re gonna have to. Because there’s nothing stopping it right now.

-- Rush Limbaugh

Source: https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2020/07/14/were-not-acting-at-all-like-americans-in-this-pandemic/

 

That's right, folks; Nothing we could have done about it. All the advancements in medical science over the last century, just didn't happen. (Oh, and the "no shutdowns" is a flat out lie.) 

[Phil1111 910]

3 hours ago, olofscience said:

Since Turtle didn't really have an argument against my point that positivity rates are not the same as positive test results, we'll just assume he's admitted his mistake in doing that.

However, reports are now out that the White House (DHHS) has ordered hospitals to bypass the CDC on COVID-19 data collection: https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/14/21324688/white-house-covid-19-coronavirus-data-collection-cdc-bypass-trump-hhs

This is probably so they can manipulate the numbers more easily.

However, this order doesn't seem to be that legal:

 

Should properly be in the Banana thread and not a peep from his other supporters either. I guess they are relaxing on their Easy-Boy recliners after digesting a big meal of B.S.

[jakee 1,254]

20 minutes ago, ryoder said:

That's right, folks; Nothing we could have done about it. All the advancements in medical science over the last century, just didn't happen. (Oh, and the "no shutdowns" is a flat out lie.) 

Yeah, I'm sure Rush would be totally fine with going back to hundred year old medicine and giving up those viagra and pain pills he's so fond of.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

1 hour ago, ryoder said:

...It was just the next in a long line of things that happened to people that they dealt with, like the Donner party. You’ve heard of the Donner party. Maybe some of you haven’t.

The Donner party, the Donner family and a bunch of travelers trying to get to California over the Sierra Nevada mountain range. They made the mistake of trying to make the trip in the middle of winter. We’re talking the Lake Tahoe region. They get to the peak. It was so bad that they had to turn to cannibalism to survive. That’s what’s noteworthy about the Donner party.

If you read the diaries written by the leaders of the Donner party, the only reference to how cold it was was one sentence: “It was a particularly tough winter.” It’s just what was. They didn’t complain about it because there was nothing they could do. They had to adapt. This is what’s missing. There seems to be no concept of adaptation. There seems to be no understanding in the Millennial generation that we can adapt to this and that we’re gonna have to. Because there’s nothing stopping it right now.

-- Rush Limbaugh

Source: https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2020/07/14/were-not-acting-at-all-like-americans-in-this-pandemic/

 

That's right, folks; Nothing we could have done about it. All the advancements in medical science over the last century, just didn't happen. (Oh, and the "no shutdowns" is a flat out lie.) 

And, not surprisingly, the fat idiot left out a 'minor' point:
 

Quote

Interestingly, Limbaugh left out half the story of what happened to the Donner Party. After it was rescued and news of what had happened to the members of the group raced back east, Americans were horrified. Determined to guarantee that no other travelers would ever have to endure such a fate, Congress backed government policies to place army guides on the route to California and Oregon. The government did its best to make sure that those crossing the dangerous mountains would arrive safely at their destination.

After it happened, the government stepped in and took steps to protect it's citizens.

SOCIALISM!!!!! Even back in the 1800s.

Quote is from Heather Cox Richardson's FB post. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by wolfriverjoe

[ryoder 1,381]

2 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

And, not surprisingly, the fat idiot user left out a 'minor' point:
 

After it happened, the government stepped in and took steps to protect it's citizens.

SOCIALISM!!!!! Even back in the 1800s.

Quote is from Heather Cox Richardson's FB post. 

Yes, it was from her FB post that I learned about the idiot's Donner Party blathering.

[kallend 1,623]

A man-made disaster.  The man being President Donald J. Trump.

[ryoder 1,381]

[kallend 1,623]

3 hours ago, ryoder said:

Stupid is as stupid does.

[wmw999 2,120]

Nearly a month ago is a little too long for it to be directly from the convention (I hope). However, based on his behavior there, subsequent statements about refusing to issue a mask order, and his likely minions, I’d be willing to bet it’s second  generation from the rally. 
Wendy P. 

[kallend 1,623]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Nearly a month ago is a little too long for it to be directly from the convention (I hope). However, based on his behavior there, subsequent statements about refusing to issue a mask order, and his likely minions, I’d be willing to bet it’s second  generation from the rally. 
Wendy P. 

1st or 2nd generation not really relevant - attending the convention and spurning a mask IS an indicator of stupidity and/or ignorance (probably both).

Could be 1st gen. anyway - 2 weeks to incubate, another week for symptoms to suggest a need for testing, and a few days to get the test results back.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

Nearly a month ago is a little too long for it to be directly from the convention (I hope). However, based on his behavior there, subsequent statements about refusing to issue a mask order, and his likely minions, I’d be willing to bet it’s second  generation from the rally. 
Wendy P. 

Not really.

Incubation time, time to recognize & accept symptoms, get tested, get results back.

Somewhere between 9 & 28 days. 
Mid-range of 17.

It was 18 days after the event that Tulsa saw big spikes.
This was at the longer end of the range. 

Coincidence?
I think not.

[headoverheels 291]

I don't know that the Tulsa rally had that much of a statistical impact.  The cases were already on an upswing before the rally, and continued that upward trend after.  Of course, many attendees were likely not locals to Tulsa, or even Oklahoma, so those don't show up on the Tulsa case reports.  OK as a whole was also already on an uptrend,which has continued at a similar rate.

[billvon 2,394]

59 minutes ago, headoverheels said:

I don't know that the Tulsa rally had that much of a statistical impact.  

Agreed.  It probably had a measurable impact but not a huge (factor of 2 or anything) impact.  On the day of the rally, 10,000 cases in Oklahoma were reported.  If the infections were spread evenly, that means that 17 people at the rally had a COVID infection.  It is likely they were super spreaders, similar to the choir case in Washington, so each spreader infected ~52 people and caused ~2 deaths.  So the likely increase on that day of COVID cases was about 1000 - only about 10% of the total infected that day.  And only 34 more deaths.

That could be mitigated by seeing if people travel to the event from areas with lower infection rates.  However, since pretty much every single pandemic-mitgation rule was broken, the number of people infected by each spreader was probably higher than 52.

 

[headoverheels 291]

There were not 10000 confirmed OK cases that were contagious on that day.   Closer to 3000, as there were 7000 of those 10k that were too old for most of them to be contagious.  People with symptoms generally would not go, further reducing the numbers.  The assumption that every spreader is a super spreader is specious.  Choir practice /continuous singing spreads more droplets that would be spread by the average rally attendee.  That said, unconfirmed cases attending bring back up the numbers a bit, and likelihood of infection by people taking no precautions (i.e., 95% of the attendees) is higher on average than the general population.

 

[Phil1111 910]

12 hours ago, kallend said:

1st or 2nd generation not really relevant - attending the convention and spurning a mask IS an indicator of stupidity and/or ignorance (probably both).

...

"A large takeout order from a KFC in Australia led the police to more than a dozen people hiding at a house party and more than 26,000 Australian dollars in Covid-19 fines, the authorities said Friday.

Chief Commissioner Shane Patton of the Victoria police announced the hefty fine at a news conference, saying that 16 people had broken coronavirus restrictions by attending a surprise birthday at a home in Dandenong, a suburb of Melbourne."

In the US the president holds rallies where mask use is discouraged. In the US where his conservative base love to use economics to promote the GOP- trump position. Protests about govt. overreach in requiring masks.

Perhaps there needs to be a stupidity death clock.

[kallend 1,623]

Stupid is as stupid does:

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/507600-georgia-governor-overrides-all-local-mask-orders-in-the-state

 

[kallend 1,623]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Stupid is as stupid does:

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/507600-georgia-governor-overrides-all-local-mask-orders-in-the-state

 

Candice Broce, a spokesperson for Kemp, doubled down on the governor’s stance that local orders are “unenforceable.” 

“Previous executive orders — and now this order — state no local action can be more or less restrictive than ours. We have explained that local mask mandates are unenforceable."

So they CAN enforce a requirement that a woman cover her chest (§ 16-6-8 Georgia Code), but not a requirement that anyone cover their mouth and nose.

Seems like a bogus argument to me.

[ryoder 1,381]

4 minutes ago, kallend said:

Candice Broce, a spokesperson for Kemp, doubled down on the governor’s stance that local orders are “unenforceable.” 

“Previous executive orders — and now this order — state no local action can be more or less restrictive than ours. We have explained that local mask mandates are unenforceable."

So they CAN enforce a requirement that a woman cover her chest (§ 16-6-8 Georgia Code), but not a requirement that anyone cover their mouth and nose.

Seems like a bogus argument to me.

Has the GOP officially made "pro virus" part of their 2020 campaign platform yet?

[Coreece 190]

4 minutes ago, kallend said:

So they CAN enforce a requirement that a woman cover her chest (§ 16-6-8 Georgia Code), but not a requirement that anyone cover their mouth and nose.

Too bad we don't have butt-loads of women demanding they show us their breasts, eh?

 

. . .and then overwhelm/distract law enforcement so I can speed and trespass with impunity.

 

[gowlerk 1,904]

17 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Too bad we don't have butt-loads of women demanding they show us their breasts, eh?

Butt loads? I thought Rs counted women by the binder full.

[Coreece 190]

2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

21 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Too bad we don't have butt-loads of women demanding they show us their breasts, eh?

Butt loads? I thought Rs counted women by the binder full.

I had an opportunity to use butt and breast in the same sentence and I seized it. 

Carpe Diem Baby