yoink 321 #2676 July 15, 2020 46 minutes ago, billvon said: As a liberal author recently said, "I don’t know how to explain to someone why they should care about other people." That may be something that some conservatives are simply incapable of processing. My rights are more important to me than your rights. Conservatism in a nutshell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Westerly 61 #2677 July 15, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, mistercwood said: Yes. When dealing with infectious disease, your choices impact on other peoples bodies, so the connection you are trying to make is invalid. Sure but the counterargument they will make is well no one forced you to be around me. You could just not be here--next to me--then I cant infect you. Most of those who dismiss Covid safety precautions make the argument, 'if you're scared of the virus then just stay home.' I mean technically that's not in invalid point. You could just stay home. We've all done it to some extent so far this year. The ultimate issue is who the fuck wants to just live in their house forever? eventually we need to get past this and that's never going to happen without infection risk if we're not all on the same page--and we're not in the same book at this point. But hey, people are putting their own self-interests above that of the greater good. Who would have thought? That's only been happening since the birth of humanity. Edited July 15, 2020 by Westerly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mistercwood 287 #2678 July 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, Westerly said: Sure but the counterargument they will make is well no one forced you to be around me. You could just not be here--next to me--then I cant infect you. Most of those who dismiss Covid safety precautions make the argument, 'if you're scared of the virus then just stay home.' Those certainly might be the responses they use, but they in no way qualify as counter-arguments... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olofscience 420 #2679 July 15, 2020 Since Turtle didn't really have an argument against my point that positivity rates are not the same as positive test results, we'll just assume he's admitted his mistake in doing that. However, reports are now out that the White House (DHHS) has ordered hospitals to bypass the CDC on COVID-19 data collection: https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/14/21324688/white-house-covid-19-coronavirus-data-collection-cdc-bypass-trump-hhs This is probably so they can manipulate the numbers more easily. However, this order doesn't seem to be that legal: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #2680 July 15, 2020 COVID-19 is too convenient an excuse for a generation of people to just punt. We don’t do this. We are Americans. In the Spanish flu, ’17, ’18, ’19, 1917, much death. Do you know that there was not one mention of it by the president of the United States at the time, Woodrow Wilson? Never talked about it. There was no national policy to deal with it. There was no shutdown. There was just, “Hey, go outside, get some fresh air, stand in the sun as long as you can, get some vitamin D, feel better.” It had numerous waves to it. It coincided with World War I, which is what Woodrow Wilson’s concern was. Soldiers going off to war arguably spread one of the waves. But there was no “woe is us.” It was just the next in a long line of things that happened to people that they dealt with, like the Donner party. You’ve heard of the Donner party. Maybe some of you haven’t. The Donner party, the Donner family and a bunch of travelers trying to get to California over the Sierra Nevada mountain range. They made the mistake of trying to make the trip in the middle of winter. We’re talking the Lake Tahoe region. They get to the peak. It was so bad that they had to turn to cannibalism to survive. That’s what’s noteworthy about the Donner party. If you read the diaries written by the leaders of the Donner party, the only reference to how cold it was was one sentence: “It was a particularly tough winter.” It’s just what was. They didn’t complain about it because there was nothing they could do. They had to adapt. This is what’s missing. There seems to be no concept of adaptation. There seems to be no understanding in the Millennial generation that we can adapt to this and that we’re gonna have to. Because there’s nothing stopping it right now. -- Rush Limbaugh Source: https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2020/07/14/were-not-acting-at-all-like-americans-in-this-pandemic/ That's right, folks; Nothing we could have done about it. All the advancements in medical science over the last century, just didn't happen. (Oh, and the "no shutdowns" is a flat out lie.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 910 #2681 July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, olofscience said: Since Turtle didn't really have an argument against my point that positivity rates are not the same as positive test results, we'll just assume he's admitted his mistake in doing that. However, reports are now out that the White House (DHHS) has ordered hospitals to bypass the CDC on COVID-19 data collection: https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/14/21324688/white-house-covid-19-coronavirus-data-collection-cdc-bypass-trump-hhs This is probably so they can manipulate the numbers more easily. However, this order doesn't seem to be that legal: Should properly be in the Banana thread and not a peep from his other supporters either. I guess they are relaxing on their Easy-Boy recliners after digesting a big meal of B.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #2682 July 15, 2020 20 minutes ago, ryoder said: That's right, folks; Nothing we could have done about it. All the advancements in medical science over the last century, just didn't happen. (Oh, and the "no shutdowns" is a flat out lie.) Yeah, I'm sure Rush would be totally fine with going back to hundred year old medicine and giving up those viagra and pain pills he's so fond of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #2683 July 15, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ryoder said: ...It was just the next in a long line of things that happened to people that they dealt with, like the Donner party. You’ve heard of the Donner party. Maybe some of you haven’t. The Donner party, the Donner family and a bunch of travelers trying to get to California over the Sierra Nevada mountain range. They made the mistake of trying to make the trip in the middle of winter. We’re talking the Lake Tahoe region. They get to the peak. It was so bad that they had to turn to cannibalism to survive. That’s what’s noteworthy about the Donner party. If you read the diaries written by the leaders of the Donner party, the only reference to how cold it was was one sentence: “It was a particularly tough winter.” It’s just what was. They didn’t complain about it because there was nothing they could do. They had to adapt. This is what’s missing. There seems to be no concept of adaptation. There seems to be no understanding in the Millennial generation that we can adapt to this and that we’re gonna have to. Because there’s nothing stopping it right now. -- Rush Limbaugh Source: https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2020/07/14/were-not-acting-at-all-like-americans-in-this-pandemic/ That's right, folks; Nothing we could have done about it. All the advancements in medical science over the last century, just didn't happen. (Oh, and the "no shutdowns" is a flat out lie.) And, not surprisingly, the fat idiot left out a 'minor' point: Quote Interestingly, Limbaugh left out half the story of what happened to the Donner Party. After it was rescued and news of what had happened to the members of the group raced back east, Americans were horrified. Determined to guarantee that no other travelers would ever have to endure such a fate, Congress backed government policies to place army guides on the route to California and Oregon. The government did its best to make sure that those crossing the dangerous mountains would arrive safely at their destination. After it happened, the government stepped in and took steps to protect it's citizens.SOCIALISM!!!!! Even back in the 1800s. Quote is from Heather Cox Richardson's FB post. Edited July 15, 2020 by wolfriverjoe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #2684 July 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: And, not surprisingly, the fat idiot user left out a 'minor' point: After it happened, the government stepped in and took steps to protect it's citizens.SOCIALISM!!!!! Even back in the 1800s. Quote is from Heather Cox Richardson's FB post. Yes, it was from her FB post that I learned about the idiot's Donner Party blathering. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #2685 July 15, 2020 A man-made disaster. The man being President Donald J. Trump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #2687 July 15, 2020 3 hours ago, ryoder said: Stupid is as stupid does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,120 #2688 July 15, 2020 Nearly a month ago is a little too long for it to be directly from the convention (I hope). However, based on his behavior there, subsequent statements about refusing to issue a mask order, and his likely minions, I’d be willing to bet it’s second generation from the rally. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #2689 July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, wmw999 said: Nearly a month ago is a little too long for it to be directly from the convention (I hope). However, based on his behavior there, subsequent statements about refusing to issue a mask order, and his likely minions, I’d be willing to bet it’s second generation from the rally. Wendy P. 1st or 2nd generation not really relevant - attending the convention and spurning a mask IS an indicator of stupidity and/or ignorance (probably both). Could be 1st gen. anyway - 2 weeks to incubate, another week for symptoms to suggest a need for testing, and a few days to get the test results back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #2690 July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, wmw999 said: Nearly a month ago is a little too long for it to be directly from the convention (I hope). However, based on his behavior there, subsequent statements about refusing to issue a mask order, and his likely minions, I’d be willing to bet it’s second generation from the rally. Wendy P. Not really. Incubation time, time to recognize & accept symptoms, get tested, get results back. Somewhere between 9 & 28 days. Mid-range of 17. It was 18 days after the event that Tulsa saw big spikes. This was at the longer end of the range. Coincidence? I think not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #2691 July 16, 2020 I don't know that the Tulsa rally had that much of a statistical impact. The cases were already on an upswing before the rally, and continued that upward trend after. Of course, many attendees were likely not locals to Tulsa, or even Oklahoma, so those don't show up on the Tulsa case reports. OK as a whole was also already on an uptrend,which has continued at a similar rate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #2692 July 16, 2020 59 minutes ago, headoverheels said: I don't know that the Tulsa rally had that much of a statistical impact. Agreed. It probably had a measurable impact but not a huge (factor of 2 or anything) impact. On the day of the rally, 10,000 cases in Oklahoma were reported. If the infections were spread evenly, that means that 17 people at the rally had a COVID infection. It is likely they were super spreaders, similar to the choir case in Washington, so each spreader infected ~52 people and caused ~2 deaths. So the likely increase on that day of COVID cases was about 1000 - only about 10% of the total infected that day. And only 34 more deaths. That could be mitigated by seeing if people travel to the event from areas with lower infection rates. However, since pretty much every single pandemic-mitgation rule was broken, the number of people infected by each spreader was probably higher than 52. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #2693 July 16, 2020 There were not 10000 confirmed OK cases that were contagious on that day. Closer to 3000, as there were 7000 of those 10k that were too old for most of them to be contagious. People with symptoms generally would not go, further reducing the numbers. The assumption that every spreader is a super spreader is specious. Choir practice /continuous singing spreads more droplets that would be spread by the average rally attendee. That said, unconfirmed cases attending bring back up the numbers a bit, and likelihood of infection by people taking no precautions (i.e., 95% of the attendees) is higher on average than the general population. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 910 #2694 July 16, 2020 12 hours ago, kallend said: 1st or 2nd generation not really relevant - attending the convention and spurning a mask IS an indicator of stupidity and/or ignorance (probably both). ... "A large takeout order from a KFC in Australia led the police to more than a dozen people hiding at a house party and more than 26,000 Australian dollars in Covid-19 fines, the authorities said Friday. Chief Commissioner Shane Patton of the Victoria police announced the hefty fine at a news conference, saying that 16 people had broken coronavirus restrictions by attending a surprise birthday at a home in Dandenong, a suburb of Melbourne." In the US the president holds rallies where mask use is discouraged. In the US where his conservative base love to use economics to promote the GOP- trump position. Protests about govt. overreach in requiring masks. Perhaps there needs to be a stupidity death clock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #2695 July 16, 2020 Stupid is as stupid does:https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/507600-georgia-governor-overrides-all-local-mask-orders-in-the-state Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #2696 July 16, 2020 1 hour ago, kallend said: Stupid is as stupid does:https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/507600-georgia-governor-overrides-all-local-mask-orders-in-the-state Candice Broce, a spokesperson for Kemp, doubled down on the governor’s stance that local orders are “unenforceable.” “Previous executive orders — and now this order — state no local action can be more or less restrictive than ours. We have explained that local mask mandates are unenforceable." So they CAN enforce a requirement that a woman cover her chest (§ 16-6-8 Georgia Code), but not a requirement that anyone cover their mouth and nose. Seems like a bogus argument to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,381 #2697 July 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, kallend said: Candice Broce, a spokesperson for Kemp, doubled down on the governor’s stance that local orders are “unenforceable.” “Previous executive orders — and now this order — state no local action can be more or less restrictive than ours. We have explained that local mask mandates are unenforceable." So they CAN enforce a requirement that a woman cover her chest (§ 16-6-8 Georgia Code), but not a requirement that anyone cover their mouth and nose. Seems like a bogus argument to me. Has the GOP officially made "pro virus" part of their 2020 campaign platform yet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #2698 July 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, kallend said: So they CAN enforce a requirement that a woman cover her chest (§ 16-6-8 Georgia Code), but not a requirement that anyone cover their mouth and nose. Too bad we don't have butt-loads of women demanding they show us their breasts, eh? . . .and then overwhelm/distract law enforcement so I can speed and trespass with impunity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,905 #2699 July 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, Coreece said: Too bad we don't have butt-loads of women demanding they show us their breasts, eh? Butt loads? I thought Rs counted women by the binder full. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #2700 July 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, gowlerk said: 21 minutes ago, Coreece said: Too bad we don't have butt-loads of women demanding they show us their breasts, eh? Butt loads? I thought Rs counted women by the binder full. I had an opportunity to use butt and breast in the same sentence and I seized it. Carpe Diem Baby Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites