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airdvr

Ohio Secretary of State urges Kent State to cancel Jane Fonda May 4 speech

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10 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

So funny to watch Trump supporters type this.

I don't know how old you were on May 4, 1970 or if you even were alive.  It's easy to sit back and revise history from your armchair.  I was 11.  We lived about 30 minutes from Kent (still do).  It was a watershed event for me.  Up until this point my views on Vietnam were my WWII veteran father's views.  For the first time I saw that my father's views might be...misguided (I'm being kind).  But, it was a much different time. Anyways, my thinking is if you want to memorialize a 50 year horrific event bring the kids who were wounded...bring the parents if they're still alive.  You can probably find some guardsmen who might want to clear their conscience if possible or any number of speakers. 

I also think there are people you don't invite.  If Jim Rhodes were alive you certainly wouldn't want him.  You really wouldn't want my father if he were still with us.  And you certainly don't pay people to speak.  What could Jane contribute...I was right all along?

It should be a time of healing as well as remembrance.  So I think its a poor choice to invite and pay Jane to come and speak.  And please don't paint me with a brush that compares Trump to Fonda.

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14 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Besides the obvious, she was a tireless hard working figure in the opposition to the huge immoral error that was the American involvement in Vietnam, she still is an active protester who still regularly puts herself out there to be arrested. Many people find her to be an inspiration. Many people find her to be someone to hate. She fits in very well to the Kent State massacre vibe. Which is still an event that divides and stirs emotions. 

Playing devils advocate here - Or perhaps just an observation.

You know what this sounds like - It sounds like the hard right defending trump - and the comments above where she is a traitor and lent aid and comfort to the enemy, seem to be how the left feels about Trump.

Hmmmm.

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1 minute ago, kallend said:

Was Rommel a traitor for participating in the plot to assassinate Hitler? Or was he a hero?

So in this scenario Fonda = Rommel?  I suppose if Jane had been in the military...but I'm not well read on Rommel.  I don't think he visited with Patton and decried Hitler's war crimes.

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5 minutes ago, airdvr said:

So in this scenario Fonda = Rommel?  I suppose if Jane had been in the military...but I'm not well read on Rommel.  I don't think he visited with Patton and decried Hitler's war crimes.

Avoiding answering the question, I see.

I don't see protesting evil as the act of a traitor.  And the Vietnam War WAS evil.

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1 minute ago, kallend said:

Avoiding answering the question, I see.

I don't see protesting evil as the act of a traitor.  And the Vietnam War WAS evil.

Well it's a poor comparison.  And yes the war was evil.  Why would you want to dredge it all up again by bringing in as divisive a figure as Fonda?

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6 minutes ago, kallend said:

Was Rommel a traitor for participating in the plot to assassinate Hitler? Or was he a hero?

 

Just now, kallend said:

Avoiding answering the question, I see.

I don't see protesting evil as the act of a traitor.  And the Vietnam War WAS evil.

You're right and both people are examples of the truths regarding them being muddied by propaganda and history.  In comparison what Jane did (posing on the guns and speaking on the radio) is nowhere near as bad as the events of Kent State (And do I even invoke My Lai).  BUT even Jane has said that she terribly regrets interjecting herself as she did as if the NVA/VC forces were somehow free of aggression and atrocity.  She's simply a distraction.  Bring out John Kerry to speak, bring out anyone who was there, bring Neil Young.

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2 minutes ago, DJL said:

 

You're right and both people are examples of the truths regarding them being muddied by propaganda and history.  In comparison what Jane did (posing on the guns and speaking on the radio) is nowhere near as bad as the events of Kent State (And do I even invoke My Lai).  BUT even Jane has said that she terribly regrets interjecting herself as she did as if the NVA/VC forces were somehow free of aggression and atrocity.  She's simply a distraction.  Bring out John Kerry to speak, bring out anyone who was there, bring Neil Young.

Jane Fonda's actions were those of an immature young woman.  As was her role in Barbarella.

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10 minutes ago, kallend said:

I don't see protesting evil as the act of a traitor.  And the Vietnam War WAS evil.

It wasn't the protesting that angered people, it was allowing herself to be used in propaganda against the United States.  Her own quotes (All from a Washingtop Post article):

“These men were bombing and strafing and napalming the country,” she said, according to an Associated Press report in April 1973, which quoted an interview she gave to KNBC-TV in Los Angeles. “If a prisoner tried to escape, it is quite understandable that he would probably be beaten and tortured.”

Here is my best, honest recollection of what took place. Someone (I don’t remember who) leads me toward the gun, and I sit down, still laughing, still applauding. It all has nothing to do with where I am sitting. I hardly even think about where I am sitting. The cameras flash. I get up, and as I start to walk back to the car with the translator, the implication of what has just happened hits me. Oh, my God. It’s going to look like I was trying to shoot down U.S. planes! I plead with him, You have to be sure those photographs are not published. Please, you can’t let them be published. I am assured it will be taken care of. I don’t know what else to do. It is possible that the Vietnamese had it all planned. I will never know. If they did, can I really blame them? The buck stops here. If I was used, I allowed it to happen. It was my mistake, and I have paid and continue to pay a heavy price for it.

“It hurts me,” she said, “and it will to my grave that I made a huge, huge mistake that made a lot of people think I was against the soldiers.”

She very much acknowledges that what she did was a mistake.

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(edited)
4 minutes ago, DJL said:

“It hurts me,” she said, “and it will to my grave that I made a huge, huge mistake that made a lot of people think I was against the soldiers.”

She very much acknowledges that what she did was a mistake.

Somehow I doubt that will be her message on May 4th.  

I actually thought she was much hotter in Klute

Image result for Klute

Edited by airdvr

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There is no apology “to the American people” that would satisfy many. She has stated unequivocally that allowing herself to be used was absolutely wrong, and that she should have realized it. I, too, lived close to Kent State when that happened. My father was a WW2 vet also (although he called himself a reluctant hawk on Vietnam). I don’t hate her.

People do stupid stuff. Some of them have a higher profile than others. 

Wendy P. 

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45 minutes ago, kallend said:

Jane Fonda's actions were those of an immature young woman choosing an inappropriate response to an obvious evil.

Continuing to harp on it decades later are the actions of bitter old men. 

What she did was criminal.

What she did trumps ANY abuse of power we have seen lately.

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1 hour ago, kallend said:

Jane Fonda's actions were those of an immature young woman choosing an inappropriate response to an obvious evil.

Continuing to harp on it decades later are the actions of bitter old men. 

I agree.  So if we don't want to harp on it any more why pay her to speak?

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4 hours ago, airdvr said:

I don't know how old you were on May 4, 1970 or if you even were alive.  It's easy to sit back and revise history from your armchair.  I was 11.  We lived about 30 minutes from Kent (still do).  It was a watershed event for me.  Up until this point my views on Vietnam were my WWII veteran father's views.  For the first time I saw that my father's views might be...misguided (I'm being kind).  But, it was a much different time. Anyways, my thinking is if you want to memorialize a 50 year horrific event bring the kids who were wounded...bring the parents if they're still alive.  You can probably find some guardsmen who might want to clear their conscience if possible or any number of speakers. 

I also think there are people you don't invite.  If Jim Rhodes were alive you certainly wouldn't want him.  You really wouldn't want my father if he were still with us.  And you certainly don't pay people to speak.  What could Jane contribute...I was right all along?

It should be a time of healing as well as remembrance.  So I think its a poor choice to invite and pay Jane to come and speak.  And please don't paint me with a brush that compares Trump to Fonda.

You completely missed my point. It is ironic to watch you type a complaint about lending aid and comfort to the enemy.

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