normiss 615 #151 January 17, 2020 2 hours ago, nigel99 said: Something I intensely dislike about the USA is the way they try and circumvent international law by ‘inventing’ new classes of enemy. Bush did it with Iraq and Afghanistan and the same goes for designating an arm of Iran’s security forces as terrorists and ordering a hit on the leader. Was he a bad man? Certainly he was, Trump did something that was questionable in terms of strategy and legality and owns the consequences. No he did not shoot down the airliner, but he triggered the events leading to it happening. Looks like Iran will file with the Hague courts for war crimes against Trump. The admin still has given zero proof of anything imminent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #152 January 18, 2020 7 hours ago, SkyDekker said: But Hillary Clinton is responsible for Benghazi. Responsible for inaction. Responsible for negligence. Responsible for conditions. Responsible for ignoring security concerns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie13 307 #153 January 18, 2020 10 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Responsible for inaction. Responsible for negligence. Responsible for conditions. Responsible for ignoring security concerns. just like trump is responsible for all the dead surrounding these events. the idiot needs to go before he does something we can't fix. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 196 #154 January 18, 2020 You don't honestly believe he'll be removed from office do you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #155 January 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, airdvr said: You don't honestly believe he'll be removed from office do you? No, because McConnell and his cronies are already on record with a verdict before any trial had started. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 615 #156 January 18, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Responsible for inaction. Responsible for negligence. Responsible for conditions. Responsible for ignoring security concerns. It's like she didn't even repeatedly ask for the additional funds to protect the embassies and the Republican led administration did not provide it! It would make a normal person question why it wasn't something the administration wanted to protect! I wonder why it was important to her to try to get the additional protection, what threats she was aware of, and why the administration dismissed them. Damn her! Edited January 18, 2020 by normiss Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,329 #157 January 18, 2020 I am far from being a fan of HRC. But can someone explain to me why the Secretary of State is responsible for the military response to the attack on the embassy? Anyone else remember the Somalia incident (Black Hawk Down)? US Soldiers died because the military response was inadequate. IIRC, Pakistani forces were supposed to be the rescue force and failed to act. The then SecDef, Les Aspin was the one who resigned over it. Not Warren Christopher. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 196 #158 January 18, 2020 23 minutes ago, kallend said: No, because McConnell and his cronies are already on record with a verdict before any trial had started. Kinda like the impeachment hearings eh? You guys keep going like this and he'll be re-elected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie13 307 #159 January 18, 2020 2 hours ago, airdvr said: Kinda like the impeachment hearings eh? You guys keep going like this and he'll be re-elected. nothing like the impeachment hearings actually. i hate to think that some folks actually are ok with their elected representatives acting like this, but then i remember that if one is above average in intelligence, there are many, many that are lower in it. not that you are, or that intelligence has anything to do with it, but i would think it speaks volumes about one's character that these obviously criminal actions are not only all right, but to defend them with nothing but attacks on the policy or trying to say others did similar things is just beyond my comprehension. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #160 January 18, 2020 4 hours ago, airdvr said: Kinda like the impeachment hearings eh? Not remotely. You should read the US Constitution, you might find it enlightening. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #161 January 20, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 9:26 AM, normiss said: It's like she didn't even repeatedly ask for the additional funds to protect the embassies and the Republican led administration did not provide it! It would make a normal person question why it wasn't something the administration wanted to protect! I wonder why it was important to her to try to get the additional protection, what threats she was aware of, and why the administration dismissed them. Damn her! So you are saying this is Obama's fault? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 615 #162 January 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: So you are saying this is Obama's fault? Nice try. Now go back and verify who was in charge of the purse strings at the time. Those funds were refused, primarily in opposition of Obama. By the GOP controlled House. Hillary warned the GOP that their embassy security cuts put Americans at risk, and they didn't listen to her. I know you know this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,356 #163 January 20, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 7:36 AM, wolfriverjoe said: But can someone explain to me why the Secretary of State is responsible for the military response to the attack on the embassy? Because she was running for president, and they needed every tool in their arsenal (including Russia) to defeat her. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #164 January 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, normiss said: Nice try. Now go back and verify who was in charge of the purse strings at the time. Those funds were refused, primarily in opposition of Obama. By the GOP controlled House. Hillary warned the GOP that their embassy security cuts put Americans at risk, and they didn't listen to her. I know you know this. You said: ""It's like she didn't even repeatedly ask for the additional funds to protect the embassies and the Republican led administration did not provide it! It would make a normal person question why it wasn't something the administration wanted to protect! I wonder why it was important to her to try to get the additional protection, what threats she was aware of, and why the administration dismissed them. Damn her!"" That was the Obama Administration - What -WERE- they hiding? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 615 #165 January 20, 2020 22 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: You said: ""It's like she didn't even repeatedly ask for the additional funds to protect the embassies and the Republican led administration did not provide it! It would make a normal person question why it wasn't something the administration wanted to protect! I wonder why it was important to her to try to get the additional protection, what threats she was aware of, and why the administration dismissed them. Damn her!"" That was the Obama Administration - What -WERE- they hiding? Indeed it was, yet it was Republicans in control. Stop trying to dismiss that. Congress controls the purse strings, not the POTUS. Does anything you post here make sense in any way??? No. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 138 #166 January 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, normiss said: Indeed it was, yet it was Republicans in control. Stop trying to dismiss that. Congress controls the purse strings, not the POTUS. Does anything you post here make sense in any way??? No. It doesn’t fit the narrative that Hillary is evil. God forbid it was actually the Republicans to blame! Don’t let facts get in the way of good old bigotry! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,090 #167 January 20, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Damn her!"" That was the Obama Administration - What -WERE- they hiding? Consider it this way, Turtle: it would be fair to blame the Democratic House of Representatives for the failure to build the wall now, just as it was fair to blame the Republican Congress for failing to fund additional security. Wendy P. Edited January 20, 2020 by wmw999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #168 January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, wmw999 said: Consider it this way, Turtle: it would be fair to blame the Democratic House of Representatives for the failure to build the wall now, just as it was fair to blame the Republican Congress for failing to fund additional security. Wendy P. If the wall mattered so much we would have to build it before we saw what it did. People have forgotten that the protest and bombing was blamed on a video that no one that was protesting had any knowledge of. It was an attempted cover up from the start . . . and then they doubled down. It was bullshit then, it is bullshit now. Obama and HRC need to come out with video similar to the one they created regarding that ignorant home made video, and blaming it for the attack, admitting their culpability in the attempted subterfuge. Admit it, take the lumps, and my opinion will change. BUT - That's completely off subject. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #169 January 20, 2020 On 1/18/2020 at 10:36 AM, wolfriverjoe said: But can someone explain to me why the Secretary of State is responsible for the military response to the attack on the embassy? Also, it wasn't an embassy. It fact it was so unofficial of a station that it likely wouldn't have been on the list of places getting additional support. Stevens was planning to be there for only days. 9 hours ago, normiss said: Hillary warned the GOP that their embassy security cuts put Americans at risk, and they didn't listen to her. Could you provide a source for this? Would like to show it to a few people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,101 #170 January 21, 2020 On 1/20/2020 at 5:35 AM, turtlespeed said: If the wall mattered so much we would have to build it before we saw what it did. People have forgotten that the protest and bombing was blamed on a video that no one that was protesting had any knowledge of. It was an attempted cover up from the start . . . and then they doubled down. It was bullshit then, it is bullshit now. Obama and HRC need to come out with video similar to the one they created regarding that ignorant home made video, and blaming it for the attack, admitting their culpability in the attempted subterfuge. Admit it, take the lumps, and my opinion will change. BUT - That's completely off subject. This and your previous comments are fine examples of how the average American falls for the rampant manipulation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #171 January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, SkyDekker said: This and your previous comments are fine examples of how the average American falls for the rampant manipulation. The administration did initially blame it on the video. Is that the manipulation you are referring to? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,101 #172 January 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rick said: The administration did initially blame it on the video. Is that the manipulation you are referring to? No. The manipulation is in the narrative and never ending investigations. The Republicans even admitted it was for no other purpose then to discredit her. But this all goes back to turtle saying how Clinton is responsible for second and third order effects (real or perceived/contrived) and Trump is not responsible for second and third order effects (real or perceived/contrived). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #173 January 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rick said: The administration did initially blame it on the video. Is that the manipulation you are referring to? They did because that's what the CIA intel told them. This has been used in the narrative that they were trying to cover up something, presumably the accusation that they didn't provide proper defense for this building. That of course is a moot point because this wasn't an embassy, it was a property the US owned as a diplomatic outpost that Stevens decided to use for a few days. He also chose to bring fewer body guards with him that his typical detachment. This facility was so far off the radar that the official Libyan government wasn't even aware it existed. There has since been a full court case regarding the perpetrators of the attack but who cares, because I guess we care more about trying to make HRC look bad that going after the guys who ACTUALLY KILLED AMERICANS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Abu_Khattala Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #174 January 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: The manipulation is in the narrative and never ending investigations. Now I see where you are coming from. I am no longer a Trump fan. I never was a Hillary fan. I have some friends that any time I bring up negative criticism of Hillary claim I am listening to "fake news" or I have bought into some kind of false narrative about her. They are just as much blinded by their hate for Trump as some are by their hate for Hillary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #175 January 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, DJL said: They did because that's what the CIA intel told them. From fact check.org: "the administration was quick to blame the video, which did trigger protests in Egypt and elsewhere, and slow to acknowledge the incident was a terrorist attack. Republicans say this was done by administration officials to help get Obama reelected, while Democrats — including former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton — have blamed the initial response on the “fog of war.” We leave that up to you to decide" initially they put out the blame the video line. Why they stayed with it as long as they did is the question. She was running for office at the time. It is all moot now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites