Pensacola shooting

[brenthutch 383]

I can’t figure out how this could possibly happen.  All POWs (privately owned weapons) on base must be registered, kept in a locked arms room and must be signed in and out.  NO firearms are allowed to be brought onto the base.

[DJL 232]

40 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I can’t figure out how this could possibly happen.  All POWs (privately owned weapons) on base must be registered, kept in a locked arms room and must be signed in and out.  NO firearms are allowed to be brought onto the base.

Don't fret, Trump is already deflecting blame from Saudi Arabia:

Donald J. Trump
✔@realDonaldTrump

King Salman of Saudi Arabia just called to express his sincere condolences and give his sympathies to the families and friends of the warriors who were killed and wounded in the attack that took place in Pensacola, Florida....

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/12/06/trump-king-salman-said-saudi-people-angered-pensacola-shooting/4355837002/

[normiss 620]

I'm thankful all the facilities I was stationed at were classified Top Secret - No Foreign.

Does that classification still exist?

Seems to me any foreign support or training areas should be classified in a more segregated, secure area away from the primary facility. More so given the past few years of events.

[billvon 2,380]

5 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I can’t figure out how this could possibly happen.  All POWs (privately owned weapons) on base must be registered, kept in a locked arms room and must be signed in and out.  NO firearms are allowed to be brought onto the base.

Seven hours between a shooting and a post here mocking it to make a political point.  Not a record, but close.

[yobnoc 142]

3 hours ago, normiss said:

I'm thankful all the facilities I was stationed at were classified Top Secret - No Foreign.

Does that classification still exist?

Seems to me any foreign support or training areas should be classified in a more segregated, secure area away from the primary facility. More so given the past few years of events.

NOFORN still exists as a classification, yes.  All of the subject matter for my rating was classified at least at the NOFORN level - most of it was Confidential.  Some TS.  The officers had much more TS material they were working with in the nuclear field.

[yobnoc 142]

Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani.  At least the poor seamstress lady at the NEX won't have to make those name tapes anymore.

[Coreece 189]

6 hours ago, billvon said:

Seven hours between a shooting and a post here mocking it to make a political point.  Not a record, but close.

Ya it usually seems to be the lefties - and I don't really remember you ever calling them out on it.  But then again maybe John was serious about banning garlic, you never really know with that guy.

[kallend 1,620]

9 hours ago, Coreece said:

Ya it usually seems to be the lefties - and I don't really remember you ever calling them out on it.  But then again maybe John was serious about banning garlic, you never really know with that guy.

There’s a difference between mocking the NRA’s talking points and mocking a shooting.  Not that I expect you to have figured it out.

[brenthutch 383]

Who is mocking?  I'm trying to figure out how a mass shooting could happen in a place with some of the toughest gun control measures in the country.  Ironic isn't it, how mass shooting seem to happen in gun free zones.  I blame it on the language barrier.  Obviously the shooter, being Arabic, was unable to read the "no firearms allowed on base" sign.

Edited December 7, 2019 by brenthutch

[jgoose71 0]

When I was still active duty I use to train Saudi's.  A lot of our partner forces use american schools to achieve their initial qualifications (because we are still viewed as the best in a lot of areas and we are more willing to share than a lot of our european allies).

That said, we rely a lot on the foreign governments to do a lot of the screening of the people in there military.  Supposedly, since they are their guys, they know them (that whole knowing them and their family and working with them on a day to day basis thing).  Saudi Arabia is also supposed to be our ally in containing Iran.  I don't think they would knowingly jeopardize our relationship (especially since we buy a lot of their oil and protect their shipping lanes).

The real question is, why are people who are members of the "religion of peace" doing this?

[JoeWeber 2,294]

2 minutes ago, jgoose71 said:

When I was still active duty I use to train Saudi's.  A lot of our partner forces use american schools to achieve their initial qualifications (because we are still viewed as the best in a lot of areas and we are more willing to share than a lot of our european allies).

That said, we rely a lot on the foreign governments to do a lot of the screening of the people in there military.  Supposedly, since they are their guys, they know them (that whole knowing them and their family and working with them on a day to day basis thing).  Saudi Arabia is also supposed to be our ally in containing Iran.  I don't think they would knowingly jeopardize our relationship (especially since we buy a lot of their oil and protect their shipping lanes).

The real question is, why are people who are members of the "religion of peace" doing this?

It's not the specific religion. Christianity is a "religion of peace", too. It's more about who is manipulating their receptive thought processes. 

[gowlerk 1,902]

3 hours ago, jgoose71 said:

The real question is, why are people who are members of the "religion of peace" doing this?

A large number of Saudis hate the west in general and America in particular. It isn't really a religious thing. It's the way the west has meddled in their affairs and supports the dictators who control them over the last century or so. I would imagine that if the tables were turned and America was governed by a King who stayed in power with support from the middle east there would be no shortage of American terrorists in the underground.

[jakee 1,254]

6 hours ago, gowlerk said:

A large number of Saudis hate the west in general and America in particular. It isn't really a religious thing. It's the way the west has meddled in their affairs and supports the dictators who control them over the last century or so. I would imagine that if the tables were turned and America was governed by a King who stayed in power with support from the middle east there would be no shortage of American terrorists in the underground.

I don't think it quite works that way with Saudi Arabia. I think Saudi terrorists are more likely to be adherents to the state sponsored ultra-conservative and repressive religious sect who've just been radicalized a little further than they are people fighting for a free-er land.

[gowlerk 1,902]

6 hours ago, jakee said:

I don't think it quite works that way with Saudi Arabia. I think Saudi terrorists are more likely to be adherents to the state sponsored ultra-conservative and repressive religious sect who've just been radicalized a little further than they are people fighting for a free-er land.

FWIW this is part of an NYT story about possible motives
 

The SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors jihadist activity, cited a Twitter account with a name matching the gunman that had posted a “will” calling the United States a “nation of evil” and criticizing its support for Israel.

SITE said the account had also quoted Osama bin Laden, the former Qaeda leader, and was critical of United States foreign policy.

“I’m not against you for just being American,” the posts said. “I don’t hate you because your freedoms, I hate you because every day you supporting, funding and committing crimes not only against Muslims but also humanity.”

The account could not be independently verified, and law enforcement officials did not confirm that it was connected to the gunman.

[jakee 1,254]

16 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

FWIW this is part of an NYT story about possible motives

Right. I didn’t see anything in what you just quoted about them being angry at US support for Saudi dictators.

[gowlerk 1,902]

22 minutes ago, jakee said:

Right. I didn’t see anything in what you just quoted about them being angry at US support for Saudi dictators.

I would consider the statement of support for Bin Laden, who was mostly motivated by American meddling and the statement about funding and committing crimes against Muslims to be condemnations of American policy. Not religious in nature. 

[brenthutch 383]

 

[jakee 1,254]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

I would consider the statement of support for Bin Laden, who was mostly motivated by American meddling and the statement about funding and committing crimes against Muslims to be condemnations of American policy. Not religious in nature. 

But it is also religious in nature because they are connected to those other Muslims by being Muslims. No Saudi terrorist is angry at the US for aiding the Saudi dictators, because the Saudi dictatorship fosters the extremist sects the terrorists are part of. They're the people who actually like how fascist Saudi Arabia is. Yes, they're angry at all the other (equally terrorist) stuff the US and the west has done in the region, but not at what the US has done in their own country. 

Edited December 8, 2019 by jakee

[gowlerk 1,902]

5 minutes ago, jakee said:

But it is also religious in nature because they are connected to those other Muslims by being Muslims. No Saudi terrorist is angry at the US for aiding the Saudi dictators, because the Saudi dictatorship fosters the extremist sects the terrorists are part of. They're the people who actually like how fascist Saudi Arabia is. Yes, they're angry at all the other (equally terrorist) stuff the US and the west has done in the region, but not at what the US has done in their own country. 

Well, it's hard to see that they are in favour of the King considering the King is an American "ally". Religion, culture, and politics are all intertwined in this. It's hard to separate them from each other. Bin Laden, (actually a Yemeni) was primarily motivated against the House of Saud. As were most of the hijackers. It now appears that the shooter had friends who likely knew what he was going to do and recorded it. It will be very interesting to see how their prosecutions proceed.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/12/07/official-florida-base-shooter-watched-massshooting-videos-before-attack?fbclid=IwAR1-Bwd4vxzAUYSHcbAy8J7ewNWvctbdjNk8kLNZIajIrY0UFlhx1fHAc3g

[gowlerk 1,902]

8 hours ago, brenthutch said:

 

Cute little film. It makes a good point. Rules against guns in public places don't work. Clearly control of the supply of killing machines is necessary.

[brenthutch 383]

10 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Cute little film. It makes a good point. Rules against guns in public places don't work. Clearly control of the supply of killing machines is necessary.

That would be no less futile that the "no guns allowed" sign because of the hundreds of millions of guns that are currently on the street.  Not to mention, the moment that gun control is mentioned in the halls of congress, the public cleans out every gun store in the country.  Remember the Great Ammunition Shortage?  No?  It started November 5th 2008.  Inventories of guns and ammunition, across the country, were wiped out in a matter of hours and it took until 2013 to recover.  I still have nightmares. 

[gowlerk 1,902]

17 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

That would be no less futile that the "no guns allowed" sign because of the hundreds of millions of guns that are currently on the street.  Not to mention, the moment that gun control is mentioned in the halls of congress, the public cleans out every gun store in the country.  Remember the Great Ammunition Shortage?  No?  It started November 5th 2008.  Inventories of guns and ammunition, across the country, were wiped out in a matter of hours and it took until 2013 to recover.  I still have nightmares. 

Yes, of course. Nothing can be done ever. America is special and what the rest of the world finds effective could never work there. Because no one would ever obey the law. That's the way you roll. Cold dead hands ya know. Fuck yeah!

[DJL 232]

32 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

That would be no less futile that the "no guns allowed" sign because of the hundreds of millions of guns that are currently on the street. 

And of course you answer your original question too.  The most latest breaking info is that he was able to purchase it even though he's a foreign national and I think we can all agree that the 2nd Amendment didn't get written to let non-citizens purchase firearms so easily.

I don't think the fact that's he's a Saudi is relevant considering that US citizens seems just as likely to become radicalized for some bullshit reason whether it's a gay man who said he was shooting people in the name of ISIS or someone shooting up a Synagogue.  They're all fucked in the head.

[brenthutch 383]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2017/01/30/does-the-constitution-protect-non-citizens-judges-say-yes/#68d892a14f1d

Looks like the constitution cuts both ways

[brenthutch 383]

37 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Yes, of course. Nothing can be done ever. America is special and what the rest of the world finds effective could never work there. Because no one would ever obey the law.

The second amendment IS the law.