Oh snap!

[brenthutch 383]

 

[JoeWeber 2,297]

8 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

 

Brent,

Not counting being under military control, how well traveled are you? I ask because you seem parochial and isolated in your views and opinions. To be completely direct, well traveled doesn't mean Cabo or talking to people who've actually gone somewhere. It means going yourself and experiencing people and places and things that aren't found in Happy Valley. That means lots of things and many countries. Have you done that? 

[brenthutch 383]

11 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Brent,

Not counting being under military control, how well traveled are you? I ask because you seem parochial and isolated in your views and opinions. To be completely direct, well traveled doesn't mean Cabo or talking to people who've actually gone somewhere. It means going yourself and experiencing people and places and things that aren't found in Happy Valley. That means lots of things and many countries. Have you done that? 

LOL, I am about as poorly travelled and parochial as Bono.

BTW just what does "under military control" mean?

my undergrad degree is Foreign Service, now known as international political science.  I have been to more than a dozen countries and have lived overseas for more than a half a decade.  Are you wondering about a cab ride conversion I had in East Berlin about the prospect of German reunification, or about the conversation I had with two Frenchmen on a ski lift in Chamonix on the eve of the impending war in Iraq?

Edited November 27, 2019 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,297]

6 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

LOL, I am about as poorly travelled and parochial as Bono.

Cute. Smack my silly ass down and tell us where you've been and when, FYI, I maxed out my last two passports and needed to send them in for extra pages and that wasn't enough.

 

[normiss 622]

12 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Cute. Smack my silly ass down and tell us where you've been and when, FYI, I maxed out my last two passports and needed to send them in for extra pages and that wasn't enough.

 

Perhaps it would help were you lucky enough to have made almost a billion dollars just writing and performing music.

"Capitalism" and all that.

I must wonder what "aid" he received in advance of actually producing his successful "work".

Seems an odd comparison to entrepreneurial capitalism to me.

[brenthutch 383]

7 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Cute. Smack my silly ass down and tell us where you've been and when, FYI, I maxed out my last two passports and needed to send them in for extra pages and that wasn't enough.

 

Just because I love you Joe:

West Germany, East Germany, Unified Germany, Italy, Turkey, Belgium, France, Holland, UK (England and Scotland) Ireland, Spain, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Austria, Poland, Lithuania, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Bahamas, Canada and California.

[yobnoc 142]

20 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Just because I love you Joe:

West Germany, East Germany, Unified Germany, Italy, Turkey, Belgium, France, Holland, UK (England and Scotland) Ireland, Spain, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Austria, Poland, Lithuania, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Bahamas, Canada and California.

Puerto Rico and California...heh...good one

[JoeWeber 2,297]

11 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Just because I love you Joe:

West Germany, East Germany, Unified Germany, Italy, Turkey, Belgium, France, Holland, UK (England and Scotland) Ireland, Spain, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Austria, Poland, Lithuania, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Bahamas, Canada and California.

No shit, California? That's brave. Took me 2 months to learn Vietnamese before we went there in '94. I get it that you get three Germany points but were those military visits? What about the rest? Military? Nothing in Asia? Sorry, man but there is no love. You have not been around. That's the problem with us in America. Big assed loud mouths and no clue what is really going on. 

[brenthutch 383]

Dude you have no clue.  Half of my visits have been through the military and half have not.  I have a degree in international political science.  I helped the Baltic states integrate into NATO by working with their special forces.  Apparently your knowledge of military liaison missions are limited to what you watch in movies. I know that my experience pales in comparison to your pho slurping Vietnam trip, but I have to work with what I have.

BTW when I was doing my thing in the eighties and early nineties, the cold/post Cold War Europe was where it was at.  If you wanted to influence global geopolitics you were in Eastern Europe, If you wanted to get someone to make cheap sneakers, you would go to Vietnam 

Edited November 27, 2019 by brenthutch

[billvon 2,395]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

 

Exactly!  Anyone who wants to get out of poverty should just start a top-40 band like Bono did.  If they don't, they are lazy and not worth keeping around.

 

[brenthutch 383]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

Exactly!  Anyone who wants to get out of poverty should just start a top-40 band like Bono did.  If they don't, they are lazy and not worth keeping around.

 

What economic system has been more effective at reducing poverty than capitalism?...... 

crickets

crickets

crickets

[gowlerk 1,905]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

What economic system has been more effective at reducing poverty than capitalism?...... 

crickets

crickets

crickets

Capitalism has many forms. There are no purely capitalist societies. Capitalism is a useful tool and we are nowhere near learning how to best use it.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

8 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Dude you have no clue.  Half of my visits have been through the military and half have not.  I have a degree in international political science.  I helped the Baltic states integrate into NATO by working with their special forces.  Apparently your knowledge of military liaison missions are limited to what you watch in movies. I know that my experience pales in comparison to your pho slurping Vietnam trip, but I have to work with what I have.

And what you had was the security blanket of a uniform and the perspective of your mission. Grab your flip flops, a back pack and have a Tiger beer with anyone in Indonesia for a different outlook. And while you are at it, try to remember that you served to protect my point of view.

[billvon 2,395]

7 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

What economic system has been more effective at reducing poverty than capitalism?...... 

crickets

crickets

crickets

Poverty in Hong Kong, generally described as the most state country in the world - 20%

Poverty in Sweden - 16%

Oh snap!

 

[brenthutch 383]

26 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

try to remember that you served to protect my point of view.

You are my Willy Santiago, and I will fight to protect you and your point of view, no matter how misguided.

Edited November 27, 2019 by brenthutch

[brenthutch 383]

26 minutes ago, billvon said:

Poverty in Hong Kong, generally described as the most state country in the world - 20%

Poverty in Sweden - 16%

Oh snap!

 

Sweden is a capitalist country!!!!  Oh double snap!!!

https://www.aier.org/article/capitalism-saved-sweden/

BTW just what is the "most state" county in the world?

Meanwhile in the socialist paradise of Venezuela.....

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/venezuela-economy-facts-2019-5-1028225117#inflation-in-venezuela-may-hit-10-million-percent-this-year1

Edited November 27, 2019 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,297]

17 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

You are my Willy Santiago, and I will fight for you.

Cute reference. Have you ever been to the Philippines? No? No surprise. I don't need you to fight for me. More importantly, I don't want you to think I need you to fight for me. Get out, man. Go to the weird places without an American flag sewn on your shoulder. You might learn something.

[brenthutch 383]

3 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Cute reference. Have you ever been to the Philippines? No? No surprise. I don't need you to fight for me. More importantly, I don't want you to think I need you to fight for me. Get out, man. Go to the weird places without an American flag sewn on your shoulder. You might learn something.

You need to break out of this loud mouthed, knuckle dragging, militaristic Neanderthal notion you obviously have of me. (And the military FWIW). You have obviously been damaged beyond repair by the Vietnam war and have some John Wayne idea of how the military works.  Humility and grace carry the day not some cartoon notion of bravado and machismo that you are apparently burdened with.  

[brenthutch 383]

25 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Cute reference. Have you ever been to the Philippines? 

No, as I pointed out with regard to Vietnam, that is a place one goes to buy cheap sneakers.

Edited November 27, 2019 by brenthutch

[jakee 1,254]

A little more context:

 

"“Capitalism is not immoral – it’s amoral. It requires our instruction,” Bono said, adding: “Capitalism has taken more people out of poverty than any other ‘ism’. But it is a wild beast that, if not tamed, can chew up a lot of people along the way.”

 

The musician said that unfettered capitalism has caused an international drive towards populism and that public-sector spending is more vulnerable than ever due to issues such as homelessness in European cities. "

 

Yep, sounds like Bono gets it. Controlled and regulated capitalism, strong public spending including on the most vulnerable members of society, a continued focus on foreign aid and development, opposition to the wave of populist right wing governments... all sounds good to me. Something tells me you didn't think that was the point, though.

 

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

No, as I pointed out with regard to Vietnam, that is a place one goes to buy cheap sneakers.

Come on man, outside of Europe and the US you've been to Turkey, Mexico and the Bahamas. I don't see how you get to be that snobbish about travel destinations. Especially in a thread about aid to the developing world.

[brenthutch 383]

I was just reflecting the attitude I was being given.  You make a good point though.  The prosperity brought forth by capitalism creates a strong attraction for immigrants, the mass influx of folks who don't look and sound like the native population and hold beliefs that are anathema to the local culture create a backlash that we are witnessing in Europe and here in the U.S..

[wmw999 2,120]

8 hours ago, brenthutch said:

What economic system has been more effective at reducing poverty than capitalism?...... 

The amalgam of capitalism and socialism in the Scandinavian countries, that's so decried by Americans, seems to have done a good job. And while there are poor people everywhere (after all, poor is a relative, not an absolute, term), those who are in the countries with more formidable safety nets seem to have access to things that our poor don't (like consistent medical care).

Wendy P.

[kallend 1,623]

Somalia is a Libertarian/capitalist paradise. Practically no government at all to get in the way of entrepreneurs. 

[jakee 1,254]

30 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I was just reflecting the attitude I was being given.  You make a good point though.  The prosperity brought forth by capitalism creates a strong attraction for immigrants, the mass influx of folks who don't look and sound like the native population and hold beliefs that are anathema to the local culture create a backlash that we are witnessing in Europe and here in the U.S..

Thanks. You also make a good point. A more socialist fiscal policy and higher ethical expectations of corporations will ensure that the wealth generated by capitalists business will benefit more of society as a whole. A foreign policy that values aid and looks to develop regional business opportunities first rather than simply pave the way for multinationals to come in and take profits out of the country is also good.

Edited November 27, 2019 by jakee