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turtlespeed

Income inequality

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3 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

Agree

Did you know that there are a lot of rich Christians that give away tremendous amounts of money to various services? We are a generous people. 

“Charity is a cold, grey loveless thing. If a rich man wants to help the poor, he should pay his taxes gladly, not dole out money at a whim.”

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No one is, of course, arguing for income equality (in the sense of: everyone should have exactly the same).
There was a fascinating article somewhere--unfortunately I can't find it anymore--that had a graphic displaying results from a survey:
It listed 3 wealth distributions (I think it was wealth distribution and not income distribution, and I think billvon is right, that this is much more the real problem)

1. What people think would be a fair distribution
2. What people think is the current distribution
3. The actual wealth distribution in the US

The actual wealth distribution was so far more skewed towards the richest 1% of the richest 1%, that even bringing it down towards what people thought the distribution actually was would require tremendous changes.

NO ONE is advocating EQUAL income or wealth--but it looks like it is currently so much out of whack that it is creating serious systemic problems, that indicate a trend towards eventual systemic collapse. That is a problem that would effect everyone, independent of their income level.

 

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2 hours ago, airdvr said:

The game is rigged towards the monied.  The old "it takes money to make money" has never been more true.

Yes, but it used to be money to invest in machinery, stocks, inventory, livestock . . . .   

Now it is to buy politicians. 

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On 10/30/2019 at 3:15 PM, rifleman said:

“Charity is a cold, grey loveless thing. If a rich man wants to help the poor, he should pay his taxes gladly, not dole out money at a whim.”

I agree. A Christian should dole out his money by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I know a lot simply follow their church rule and not have any other consideration. However, I am Pentecostal and I listen to the Holy Spirit. I still tithe 10% but I also give extra as I am led. As a result, I never lack.

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(edited)

Interesting article in the latest issue of Scientific American on the mathematics of inequality.

Apparently a uniform distribution of wealth (however defined) is mathematically unstable under pairwise trading transactions ("deals") even if those transactions are absolutely fair.  The system inexorably leads to the concentration of wealth and eventual oligarchy unless some form of intervention takes place.

Edited to add - not sure if it's available online.

Edited by kallend

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23 minutes ago, kallend said:

Interesting article in the latest issue of Scientific American on the mathematics of inequality.

 Apparently a uniform distribution of wealth (however defined) is mathematically unstable under pairwise trading transactions ("deals") even if those transactions are absolutely fair.  The system inexorably leads to the concentration of wealth and eventual oligarchy unless some form of intervention takes place.

Edited to add - not sure if it's available online.

This one?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-inequality-inevitable/

 

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On 11/1/2019 at 8:50 AM, kallend said:

The system inexorably leads to the concentration of wealth and eventual oligarchy unless some form of intervention takes place.

Yes. The system is in itself unstable. That's why this should concern everyone, no matter how they relate to the moral/fairness aspect of the issue.
From a game theory or systems theory point of view, it is relatively obvious that the system tends to the extreme of wealth accumulation at the very narrow top. After all, every Monopoly game works by getting everyone but one person to loose all of their resources--while, admittedly, Monopoly isn't and exact replica of our system, it is a match in terms of the TYPE of game it represents. In Monopoly the game then simply ends. In the real world there needs to either some kind of reset--usually not something nice!--or the game also "ends" and what that means is anyone's guess.

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7 minutes ago, mbohu said:

Yes. The system is in itself unstable. That's why this should concern everyone, no matter how they relate to the moral/fairness aspect of the issue.
From a game theory or systems theory point of view, it is relatively obvious that the system tends to the extreme of wealth accumulation at the very narrow top. After all, every Monopoly game works by getting everyone but one person to loose all of their resources--while, admittedly, Monopoly isn't and exact replica of our system, it is a match in terms of the TYPE of game it represents. In Monopoly the game then simply ends. In the real world there needs to either some kind of reset--usually not something nice!--or the game also "ends" and what that means is anyone's guess.

Has anyone yet observed your number of posts to reaction ratio? Someone should.

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10 hours ago, mbohu said:

Yes. The system is in itself unstable. That's why this should concern everyone, no matter how they relate to the moral/fairness aspect of the issue.
From a game theory or systems theory point of view, it is relatively obvious that the system tends to the extreme of wealth accumulation at the very narrow top. After all, every Monopoly game works by getting everyone but one person to loose all of their resources--while, admittedly, Monopoly isn't and exact replica of our system, it is a match in terms of the TYPE of game it represents. In Monopoly the game then simply ends. In the real world there needs to either some kind of reset--usually not something nice!--or the game also "ends" and what that means is anyone's guess.

God gave Israel a solution with the concept of Jubilee. There are two occurrences, one every 7 years and another every 50 years. 

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(edited)
3 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

God gave Israel a solution with the concept of Jubilee. There are two occurrences, one every 7 years and another every 50 years. 

God just loves that country, so full of Christians: "No man cometh to the father but by me".

Israel had pretty much given up on that concept by 600BCE.

Edited by kallend

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5 minutes ago, kallend said:

God just loves that country, so full of Christians: "No man cometh to the father but by me".

American evangelicals have a real soft spot for Israel. It's existence keeps so many Jewish people over there instead of over here!

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3 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

God gave Israel a solution with the concept of Jubilee. There are two occurrences, one every 7 years and another every 50 years. 

Isreal was created/built in 1948. Jebus was dead and god had nothing to do with it. Humans did.

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3 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

God gave Israel a solution with the concept of Jubilee. There are two occurrences, one every 7 years and another every 50 years. 

So you would be for such extreme redistribution, amnesty and debt forgiveness, that even Bernie would blush at the thought of it?
"...prisoners would be freed, debts would be forgiven..."

Of course, in Israel they did find a convenient loophole, so they wouldn't actually have to do this:
"...but the regulations for the Jubilee year have not been observed for many centuries. According to the 
Torah, observance of Jubilee only applies when the Jewish people live in the land of Israel according to their tribes. Thus, with the exile of the tribes of Reuben, Gad, and Manasseh (about 600 BCE), Jubilee has not been applicable."

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4 hours ago, mbohu said:

So you would be for such extreme redistribution, amnesty and debt forgiveness, that even Bernie would blush at the thought of it?
"...prisoners would be freed, debts would be forgiven..."

Of course, in Israel they did find a convenient loophole, so they wouldn't actually have to do this:
"...but the regulations for the Jubilee year have not been observed for many centuries. According to the 
Torah, observance of Jubilee only applies when the Jewish people live in the land of Israel according to their tribes. Thus, with the exile of the tribes of Reuben, Gad, and Manasseh (about 600 BCE), Jubilee has not been applicable."

A nation of priests and lawyers, they both love technicalities.

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6 hours ago, gowlerk said:

American evangelicals have a real soft spot for Israel. It's existence keeps so many Jewish people over there instead of over here!

They love it because it has to exist so it can be destroyed for the Second Coming to happen (according to their reading of the Book of Revelations).

I wonder if someone who likes me to exist just so I can be destroyed is really my friend, or no...  

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15 hours ago, Skwrl said:
22 hours ago, gowlerk said:

American evangelicals have a real soft spot for Israel. It's existence keeps so many Jewish people over there instead of over here!

They love it because it has to exist so it can be destroyed for the Second Coming to happen (according to their reading of the Book of Revelations).

I wonder if someone who likes me to exist just so I can be destroyed is really my friend, or no...   

No point in countering this since only a bigoted dickhead that really wanted to believe this, could believe this - and there really isn't much I can do about that.

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(edited)
5 hours ago, Coreece said:

No point in countering this since only a bigoted dickhead that really wanted to believe this, could believe this - and there really isn't much I can do about that.

Maybe read a little.  (It's a Washington Post article, but read through Outline.com since I don't have a WaPo subscription.)  

Additionally, it creates a little bit of a weird dynamic.  

Let's just say that according to Evangelical theology, the Second Coming doesn't really end well for the Jews (well, other than maybe 144,000 who convert, depending on how you read Revelation 7:4-8).  

Edited by Skwrl
More information

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41 minutes ago, Skwrl said:
5 hours ago, Coreece said:

No point in countering this since only a bigoted dickhead that really wanted to believe this, could believe this - and there really isn't much I can do about that.

Maybe read a little.  (It's a Washington Post article, but read through Outline.com since I don't have a WaPo subscription.)   

Additionally, it creates a little bit of a weird dynamic.  

Nothing in those articles justifies anything you or gowlerk said in the posts I replied too.

Try (reading) again, but this time with a little less hate-fueled ignorance - it's a viscous cycle.

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(edited)
8 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Nothing in those articles justifies anything you or gowlerk said in the posts I replied too.

Try (reading) again, but this time with a little less hate-fueled ignorance - it's a viscous cycle.

Not sure why you're insisting there's hate.  There's not. 

Sorry this makes you mad, but the theology relating to the Second Coming is pretty well known:  Israel's enemies attacking it, Christ's return, and the conversion of 144,000, and, well, the destruction of the rest. 

You can see this in everything from the Book of Revelation itself, to Hal Lindsey's writings, to even the Left Behind series.   It doesn't end well for the (non-converted) Jews. 

More information that might make it more clear

Edited by Skwrl

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6 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Nothing in those articles justifies anything you or gowlerk said in the posts I replied too.

Try (reading) again, but this time with a little less hate-fueled ignorance - it's a viscous cycle.

If your specific flavor of Christianity doesn't follow this - great.  Problem is, I'm very aware of this idea; I grew up in a church where this was the unspoken purpose of Israel.  Christianity is a buffet - people like to pick out the things they like.  But to pretend like this isn't on the menu is pretty naive.

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