Downsizing Question

[realxeption 0]

How big a deal is downsizing from a 1.04 WL on a Sabre 2 230 to a 1.14 WL on a Sabre 2 210?  I am 239lbs total exit weight.  It just doesn't seem that a 0.1 change has any significance at all.  I have 70 jumps.

Asking because I'm going from rental gear that normally will have a Sabre 2 230 or a Pulse 230, to buying my own rig (very exciting) and I don't want to go too big on the canopy as to grow out of it too quickly.  On the other hand I didn't want to go too small, make too big a change, to put safety at risk (or scare the bejesus out of myself).  I fly and land the 230 just fine, although I believe I land better on the Sabre 2.

Thanks for any input.

Edited October 17, 2019 by realxeption

[gowlerk 2,076]

3 minutes ago, realxeption said:

How big a deal is downsizing from a 1.04 WL on a Sabre 2 230 to a 1.14 WL on a Sabre 2 210?  I am 239lbs total exit weight.  It just doesn't seem that a 0.1 change has any significance at all.  I have 70 jumps.

Thanks for any input.

This question will get you different opinions from different people. This is mine. As long as you are reasonably competent on the 230 and have not developed bad habits you will be fine. You will notice a fairly significant increase in the responsiveness of the canopy to your inputs and you will also find that you will need to up your game a little on timing your flare. Mostly you will enjoy the change.

[skybytch 259]

1.1 on a 210 at 70 jumps is not at all unreasonable if you are landing a 230 well.  If you already have a few jumps on a 210 and have landed it well, I'd say definitely go for it.  

I would suggest that you purchase the main used.  You will "probably" want to downsize again in several hundred jumps (although you certainly don't have to).  You aren't likely to have any problem selling it when/if you decide to downsize further.

Edited October 17, 2019 by skybytch

[gowlerk 2,076]

3 hours ago, realxeption said:

I fly and land the 230 just fine, although I believe I land better on the Sabre 2.

Everybody lands better on a Sabre 2. It's because they are designed in such a way that they are easy to get a soft landing. That is why they hold their value used better than any other canopy. There is a very high demand for them.

[RiggerLee 61]

The difference in wing loading is not that great. Large canopies like that fly very well and will accommodate the weight easily. You'll probable find it to be just slightly more responsive. The differences when you down size are not directly related to wing loading. I know it's the number that we use but there are other factors like line length that also factor into how the canopy behaves. That's why 1.1 on a 150 is not the same as 1.1 on a 107. It's been an issue for small girls that get pushed into buying a smaller canopy because it's the "right" wing loading for her. If you could some how graph it, control response?, call it what you will it would look like a down wards turned hockey stick. That's a little misleading because I would not say that small canopies fly badly or control badly. I've had a lot of fun over the years flying small canopies but they can be a hand full for a young jumper. It's the difference in flying a highly loaded, heavy, air craft and a short coupled one. That refers to the size of the tail in respect to how far back it is. It makes it sporty, think Pits. So although you might fill the tanks and all the seats on a cessna and be over grouse, it's still a cessna. A Pits on the other hand, might be at the same wing loading but it is a very different airplane  regardless of how heavy the cessna is. 

 

So that's part of why I don't think you'll have a problem down sizing. Not only is it a small change but you are well away from the bend in the hockey stick.

 

Lee

[realxeption 0]

Thank you all for the insight.  Very helpful / reassuring towards my decision.  I was very confident in the move but just wanted to make sure I was thinking through it correctly.

[JoeWeber 2,533]

On 10/18/2019 at 6:05 AM, realxeption said:

Thank you all for the insight.  Very helpful / reassuring towards my decision.  I was very confident in the move but just wanted to make sure I was thinking through it correctly.

I'll add just this little bit. If everyone considering downsizing at 70 jumps had your thoughtfulness and wisdom we'd have a much safer sport.

[ghost47 18]

Just out of curiosity, any reason you can't rent a 210 and try it out before buying?

[massis 2]

I'm 236lbs out the door on my current rig, having downsized from a solo 230 to a pilot 210 at 40 jumps and then down to a (my own) Silhouette 190 at 51 jumps. Been jumping that 1.24 WL for 60 jumps now, probably downsizing to a 170 somewhere next year. That makes me one of the slower downsizers in our federation afaik.

A 210 at 70 jumps with a 1.14 WL is very reasonable and shouldn't be an issue given your landings on the 230 are without issues and you've got everything under control in different wind conditions (nil winds, cross winds, ...). Obviously, check with your local instructors. When I switched to the 190 it was during a Flight-1 102 course so under the supervision of an experienced canopy pilot who knew me beforehand.