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sheeks

Setting a cypress to Student for wingsuit flying?

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If canopy flying conservatively at 1,000 feet and below at a 1 to 1 wingloading ratio, would it be wise for wingsuit flyers to change their AAD setting to student? On the offhand chance of tumbling down passed out in a suit but going less than the 78mph minimum for regular setting 

 

The student setting goes off if your rate of descent is over 29mph, I don’t think a canopy 1 to 1 would be going close to that vertical speed under normal conditions, right?

 

If one has a changeable cypress then i assume it’s not worth shelling out for a new wingsuit cypress right?

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(edited)

If student setting on your AAD is 45 MPH, you could possibly consider it. If it's 29 MPH I wouldn't even consider it. Even at 1:1 you could very easily exceed 29 MPH in a sharp turn. Personally, even for actual students I think 29 MPH is too low for use in any skydiving application. I dont see the need to change it. Even for the largest wingsuits on the market, if you get knocked out you're probably going to be spinning around and falling faster than 78 MPH, although I seem to recall the wingsuit Cypress was invented because a wingsuiter's AAD did not activate. Those who I have seen knocked out, their AAD did activate, even in pro mode. I have a changeable mode AAD and I leave it at pro. Every wingsuiter I know who has a changeable AAD leaves it at pro. I've jumped with a lot of wingsuiters and I do not know one single person who has the wingsuit Cypress. If you do change it to student mode just make a rule for yourself--no turns over 180 degrees below 2,000'. Simple.

 

What I would change is the activation height. I'd add 200-300' to the activation height. That is a good idea for just about all forms of skydiving as there have been incidents where an AAD fired but the reserve did not open in time due to one reason or another.

I do wish we could enter in our own activation speed though. If so, I'd enter in about 60 MPH. I think that's a good happy medium, but such a thing does not exist unfortunately.

Edited by 20kN

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I think there's too much stuff to remember/focus on if you'd want to use a student settings that it isn't worth it. 

Having cypres fire and resulting double-canopy situation can be really hazardous, especially below 1000 feet.

As said, expert cypres should be definitely enough for WS. (those marginal situations where it may not, I'd take as a risky part of the sport which you can't avoid)

If not, you may consider WS-cypres.

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You think even the 45mph “intermediate” settting on an AAD would be reasonable then? Can’t see why i’d be descending at a vertical rate of 45mph below 1,000 feet on my canopy, I don’t swoop

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On 10/3/2019 at 12:49 AM, sheeks said:

You think even the 45mph “intermediate” settting on an AAD would be reasonable then? Can’t see why i’d be descending at a vertical rate of 45mph below 1,000 feet on my canopy, I don’t swoop

Student Cypres has the activation speed of 13 m/s or 29 mph. This is quite easy to exceed even with big canopy without swooping. My friend did it with a toggle turn on a  280 Navigator because he forgot his Cypres was on.

Which brings us to another argument against it - the hassle of changing it back and forward or accidentally leaving it in student mode.

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13 minutes ago, skow said:

Student Cypres has the activation speed of 13 m/s or 29 mph. This is quite easy to exceed even with big canopy without swooping. My friend did it with a toggle turn on a  280 Navigator because he forgot his Cypres was on.

Which brings us to another argument against it - the hassle of changing it back and forward or accidentally leaving it in student mode.

That’s so strange that he would be vertically descending so quickly, I can understand going over 29mph forward with the wind on your back, but downward, on a nav 280?

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2 hours ago, sheeks said:

That’s so strange that he would be vertically descending so quickly, I can understand going over 29mph forward with the wind on your back, but downward, on a nav 280?

Yep, I think he did a 450 toggle turn to lose some altitude. Started above 1000 ft and once reached 1000'' cypres fired. Wingload was around 1:1.

So as you see, it's really easy to fire a student cypres

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(edited)

I don't think there is a reason to use a cypres in student mode.  Wingsuit cypres exists. 

In my opinion, after the introduction of wingsuit cypres, the reasons to use an AAD in 45 MPH mode ("student" on vigil, "intermediate" on mars) is if you a) trust either of those more than cypres, b) you already own one and don't want to sell/buy cypres or c) don't want to pay the 2x as much that cypres charges.

If you want to decrease your AAD activation vertical velocity, you should probably do the homework and using a flysight or similar figure out what the maximum vertical velocity in a deep toggle spiral would be.  This will tell you how near/far you are from your intended AAD firing threshold.

Ever since I suggested the idea on here 4-5 years ago (before WS cypres existed), a few people have reached out to me and said they use vigil in student mode without incident.  This having been said, skydiving is a game for all the marbles.  Be certain.  Make sure you do the legwork.  All the hypotheticals about what may or may not happen are not constructive without measurements.

You can indeed go below 78 MPH unconscious.  Far below.  There was a fatality where the horizontal speed of an unconscious wingsuitter hit much less (~50 MPH if I remember correctly).  In my opinion, "just increase the activation altitude" is bad advice advice in the age of large highly pressurized wingsuits.

Reach out to your local master rigger or canopy coach for more information.

Edited by lyosha

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