airdvr 196 #326 March 2, 2020 Paris Accord...what a laugher. Let's just take a look at China's submission to the Nationally Determined Contributions (NDCs) https://www4.unfccc.int/sites/NDCStaging/Pages/All.aspx In part... Based on its national circumstances, development stage, sustainable development strategy and international responsibility, China has nationally determined its actions by 2030 as follows: • To achieve the peaking of carbon dioxide emissions around 2030 and making best efforts to peak early; • To lower carbon dioxide emissions per unit of GDP by 60% to 65% from the 2005 level; • To increase the share of non-fossil fuels in primary energy consumption to around 20%; and • To increase the forest stock volume by around 4.5 billion cubic meters on the 2005 level. Oops. China Is Still Building an Insane Number of New Coal Plants Now let's look at Russia. Hmmm...can't find it. India? Seems like they were doing OK, then the election kind of changed all that. India's major political parties competing in the ongoing general elections have pledged free electricity to farmers, ambitious infrastructure projects and rapid expansion of the manufacturing sector. What impact could this have on carbon emissions in India, already the world's third largest CO2 producer? Climate change: Will India's election energy lead to CO2 rise? So let's all have a koombyah moment. Now, back to work 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,354 #327 March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, airdvr said: Paris Accord...what a laugher. Most of the US disagrees with you, fortunately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 196 #328 March 2, 2020 1 minute ago, billvon said: Most of the US disagrees with you, fortunately. That's because most of the US doesn't have a clue what the Accords actually do. If you read some of the NDC's you'll see that it's pretty much "tell them what they want to hear". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,354 #329 March 3, 2020 1 hour ago, airdvr said: That's because most of the US doesn't have a clue what the Accords actually do. That's because most people are starting to see climate change actually happen. Hard to deny that the seas are rising when you have to wade to work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #330 March 3, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, billvon said: That's because most people are starting to see climate change actually happen. Hard to deny that the seas are rising when you have to wade to work. When I have to wade my way to work I will concede that. Until then I will just laugh. Edited March 3, 2020 by brenthutch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 196 #331 March 3, 2020 1 hour ago, billvon said: That's because most people are starting to see climate change actually happen. Hard to deny that the seas are rising when you have to wade to work. I think we had the Keys flooding conversation where I showed that the Keys had flooded in the past many times. Where else are they wading? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,089 #332 March 3, 2020 Whether they flooded in the past is only part of the story. Is a new part flooding? I know that Houston is flooding in all kinds of places that didn’t used to. Partly it’s poorly-managed (or unmanaged) development, but partly it’s a greater amount of rain in a shorter period of time than has been the case in the past. It’s easy to ascribe all ills to a single cause (climate change, uncontrolled borders, socialism, capitalism), but rarely accurate. Things are more complicated, but when you add a lot of little things together they get bigger. Which ones didn’t need to get bigger? Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #333 March 3, 2020 We just had the best decade in human history. It seems to me, we must be doing something right. I advocate for "keep calm and carry on". No need for hysterics or imaginary boogiemen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 896 #334 March 3, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, brenthutch said: We just had the best decade in human history. ... What do you mean and how do you define that? As "The 1990s are widely regarded as a period of economic prosperity. From the end of 1990 to the end of 2000, the S&P 500 exactly quadrupled, rising from 330 to 1,320."....mmmm and who was the president for eight years of that decade??? For the last decade its only increased threefold. In the 1990's US debt increased 3.01 trillion. In the last decade it increased 10.83 trillion....and who was the president for most of that 2009-2017 growth?? So the increase in debt was threefold more and growth substantially less. Edited March 3, 2020 by Phil1111 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #335 March 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: What do you mean and how do you define that? As "The 1990s are widely regarded as a period of economic prosperity. From the end of 1990 to the end of 2000, the S&P 500 exactly quadrupled, rising from 330 to 1,320."....mmmm and who was the president for eight years of that decade??? For the last decade its only increased threefold. In the 1990's US debt increased 3.01 trillion. In the last decade it increased 10.83 trillion....and who was the president for most of that 2009-2017 growth?? So the increase in debt was threefold more and growth substantially less. I said human history not US history. Lowest level of poverty, highest standard of living, longest lifespan, fewest deaths from natural disasters etc. etc.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 896 #336 March 3, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, brenthutch said: I said human history not US history. Lowest level of poverty, highest standard of living, longest lifespan, fewest deaths from natural disasters etc. etc.. Yeah because US life expectancy is falling and since trump was elected US suicide rates spiked Why Is America’s Suicide Epidemic Hitting Trump’s Base So Hard? While the standard of living for average US wage earners has declined:The average worker isn’t seeing Trump’s “economic miracle.” Here’s why. Meanwhile natural disasters are destroying the US insurance markets: Climate change: can the insurance industry afford the rising flood risk? from above: -"only 15 per cent of US households have any flood coverage at all. During 2017’s Hurricane Harvey that hit Texas and Louisiana, 70 per cent of the estimated $125bn in damage was uninsured. "... -" Flood insurance is mandatory for anyone in the US with a government-backed mortgage"... -"Between 1978 and 2003, the NFIP paid out claims of under $500m a year. Since then, the claims have averaged $3.5bn a year. Premiums and fees have been inadequate to cover the payouts. In 2017, the federal government forgave $16bn in NFIP debt. Even so, the scheme owes $20bn to the US Treasury. "... -"NFIP charges premiums that do not vary with the replacement cost of houses, so expensive houses pay below-market rates. It means taxpayers are effectively providing subsidies for luxury beach houses. “The more expensive your house, the better deal you are getting from the NFIP,” ... -"The NFIP is not permitted to withdraw coverage once it is granted, so pays repeatedly to repair and rebuild thousands of homes in high-risk areas. According to the Pew Charitable Trust, such “severe repetitive loss” properties had cost the NFIP more than $12.5bn as of 2016." Oh well, hidden subsidies that climate skeptics can deny and conceal. Nothing to see here! Edited March 3, 2020 by Phil1111 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,354 #337 March 3, 2020 16 hours ago, airdvr said: I think we had the Keys flooding conversation where I showed that the Keys had flooded in the past many times. Yes they have. It used to be a rare event. Now it's almost continuous. One guy, Rick Darden, has had his street flooded for 82 continuous days last fall in his home in Key Largo. Again, try convincing Rick that there's no such thing as climate change - and that sea level isn't rising. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,265 #338 March 3, 2020 16 hours ago, brenthutch said: We just had the best decade in human history. It seems to me, we must be doing something right. I advocate for "keep calm and carry on". No need for hysterics or imaginary boogiemen. Thanks Obama! And good on you Brent for finally acknowledging his accomplishments. Too bad we have an actual hysterical boogeyman now, but oh well, right? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #339 March 3, 2020 On 3/2/2020 at 3:24 PM, billvon said: From a 2018 poll of Tesla drivers on why they bought their cars: Climate change 50.5% Performance 43.0% Autonomous driving 35.2% Fuel costs 10.7% Right. That's what she wants for her future - and what many younger people want. (And you want some of them, too.) So you have a choice. Invest in coal mines and power plants, or invest in EV's and solar. Which is the wiser investment? Which will result in a booming US economy and a good amount of retirement savings, and which will result in the US becoming a third rate economic power with a shut down economy, while your retirement account dwindles and you beg the government for free stuff? Want the US to lead, or to start begging other countries to not lead so fast because it's too hard to keep up? 139% . . . that's impressive! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,354 #340 March 4, 2020 44 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: 139% . . . that's impressive! People could answer "yes" for up to three reasons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #341 March 4, 2020 On 3/2/2020 at 4:24 PM, billvon said: From a 2018 poll of Tesla drivers on why they bought their cars: Climate change 50.5% Performance 43.0% Autonomous driving 35.2% Fuel costs 10.7% 50.5% for virtue signaling, since buying a Tesla will have ZERO impact on the climate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #342 March 4, 2020 10 hours ago, brenthutch said: 50.5% for virtue signaling, since buying a Tesla will have ZERO impact on the climate. Please provide scientific data for that. Please include the entire data set, all the way back to the Plasticine. Without that I cannot take your statement seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #343 March 4, 2020 9 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Please provide scientific data for that. Please include the entire data set, all the way back to the Plasticine. Without that I cannot take your statement seriously. Creatures from the Plasticine Era. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,354 #344 March 4, 2020 20 hours ago, brenthutch said: 50.5% for virtue signaling, since buying a Tesla will have ZERO impact on the climate. I know! Like all those people holding doors open for other people, helping people cross the street, being courteous, leaving handicapped parking spaces open etc. Has ZERO impact on society. It's virtue signaling at its worst; done only so they can say "look at what a great guy I am." Nothing but selfish vain people, I tell you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 383 #345 March 5, 2020 2 hours ago, billvon said: I know! Like all those people holding doors open for other people, helping people cross the street, being courteous, leaving handicapped parking spaces open etc. Has ZERO impact on society. It's virtue signaling at its worst; done only so they can say "look at what a great guy I am." Nothing but selfish vain people, I tell you. So, to sum up.... using fossil fuels is like: smoking, eating Big Macs, slavery and hammer vasectomies while being paid by the government to buy a car is helping people cross the street? (they are going to need help if a Tesla is around) https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-driver-hit-husband-and-wife-in-san-francisco-2019-7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,354 #346 March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, brenthutch said: using fossil fuels is like: smoking, eating Big Macs, slavery and hammer vasectomies while being paid by the government to buy a car is helping people cross the street? Once again, not even close. But great strawman! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #347 March 5, 2020 11 hours ago, brenthutch said: So, to sum up.... using fossil fuels is like: smoking, eating Big Macs, slavery and hammer vasectomies while being paid by the government to buy a car is helping people cross the street? (they are going to need help if a Tesla is around) https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-driver-hit-husband-and-wife-in-san-francisco-2019-7 ONLY if you are deliberately TRYING to miss the point and are actively engaging in deceiving yourself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,611 #348 March 7, 2020 On 3/5/2020 at 7:39 AM, turtlespeed said: ONLY if you are deliberately TRYING to miss the point and are actively engaging in deceiving yourself. STOP feeding trolls. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites