Greta Hates You All

[brenthutch 383]

On 2/27/2020 at 5:06 PM, DJL said:

It is funny that we keep having to have a conversation about the difference between people who are paid to conduct research and people who are paid to say the research is wrong.

If the research can not withstand scrutiny it can't be that good. 

Mike Mann, said something to the effect "why would I show you my work if you just wanted to prove me wrong"  Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that was how science worked. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by brenthutch

[Phil1111 910]

On 2/26/2020 at 2:14 PM, DJL said:

So, here we go with another example of the Conservative/Denier/Right Wing people DOING that thing that they accuse "The Left" of doing yet can never prove beyond accusations.  Supposedly Greta is a paid puppet under the control of George Soros or Deep State operatives who with the help of the liberal media pull her strings to get her dancing across the stage.

Not to be outdone, The Heartland Institute (a guest who needs no introduction) goes out and hires Ms. Naomi Seibt to be their conservative Greta so they can have someone to go dancing across the stage.

https://nypost.com/2020/02/25/conservative-group-hires-german-teen-naomi-seibt-to-rival-greta-thunbergs-climate-views/

Thanks for that. Its sometimes difficult to get updates on the nutball news, talking points, feeds, etc. of Fox news, Q, trumpites. If Greta has reached the demonetization stature of Soros she has truly arrived.

[brenthutch 383]

On 2/27/2020 at 5:06 PM, DJL said:

It is funny that we keep having to have a conversation about the difference between people who are paid to conduct research and people who are paid to say the research is wrong.

Funny you should mention that.  Michal Mann, when asked why he refused to show is work on the "Hockey Stick", he said something to the effect "why would I show you my work if you just want to prove me wrong?"  

Silly me, I thought that was how science was supposed to work.

Ironic that anti Greta is so much "hotter"

[billvon 2,396]

On 2/2/2020 at 5:24 AM, JoeWeber said:

Intolerant, I think you meant. It was not an attack, merely an observation. As a known libtard who has consistently flip-flopped on the issue of Greta I was simply observing that, given the thinnest of chances, a right winger has once again chosen a childish attack. 

As bad as some people here are, there's a lot worse out there.  Example - a Canadian oil company, X-Site, now has their workers sporting a sticker showing Thunberg being raped with their logo beneath it.  A reporter called and asked X-Site's general manager Doug Sparrow “You’re okay then with having your logo attached to a sticker that depicts the rape of a child?" His response - "she's not a child, she’s 17."

Classy guy.

[DJL 232]

On 2/28/2020 at 11:23 PM, brenthutch said:

If the research can not withstand scrutiny it can't be that good. 

Mike Mann, said something to the effect "why would I show you my work if you just wanted to prove me wrong"  Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that was how science worked. 

You're referring to his court case and that was a "fuck you" about cooperating.  That's basically why he lost the case, because he didn't play nice.  Do you think that invalidates the global weight of research that has been shared and is being conducted via open source review and peer review?  Basically you can personally look at any aspect of it and draw your own conclusions.

[turtlespeed 212]

23 minutes ago, DJL said:

You're referring to his court case and that was a "fuck you" about cooperating.  That's basically why he lost the case, because he didn't play nice.  Do you think that invalidates the global weight of research that has been shared and is being conducted via open source review and peer review?  Basically you can personally look at any aspect of it and draw your own conclusions.

Didn't you know that you can have 1000 pieces of evidence that water is wet, but if by chance, a single discrepancy is found, all evidence of the water wetness has to be thrown out, and the conclusion must be reached that water is indeed, not wet at all!

[brenthutch 383]

3 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Didn't you know that you can have 1000 pieces of evidence that water is wet, but if by chance, a single discrepancy is found, all evidence of the water wetness has to be thrown out, and the conclusion must be reached that water is indeed, not wet at all!

More like, you can have 5000+ years of precedent and the collective wisdom of the greatest minds the world has ever known, (AKA scientific consensus) and then some knucklehead from Poland comes along and suggests that the earth might not be in the center of the universe.  Oh the temerity!

[DJL 232]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

More like, you can have 5000+ years of precedent and the collective wisdom of the greatest minds the world has ever known, (AKA scientific consensus) and then some knucklehead from Poland comes along and suggests that the earth might not be in the center of the universe.  Oh the temerity!

And then there was this knucklehead who came along with this hockey-stick global warming thing.  Oh the temerity!

[turtlespeed 212]

5 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

More like, you can have 5000+ years of precedent and the collective wisdom of the greatest minds the world has ever known, (AKA scientific consensus) and then some knucklehead from Poland comes along and suggests that the earth might not be in the center of the universe.  Oh the temerity!

No - Nothing like that at all.

The premise you speak of was because there was not a lot of people that could get high enough above see level to notice the curvature of the earth.

Even then, you had irrational hold outs.

Even today - oddly enough - you still have irrational hold outs.

 

[wmw999 2,121]

Interesting source for a statement about scientific consensus. Of course, historically what we now call science was called natural philosophy, and there wasn't a scientific method -- it took the analysis of "smart men" to come up with new ideas. Part of the point of the scientific method was to reduce the sole reliance on "smart men" and reputation -- it allows for the evaluation of data and methods, rather than simply evaluating the source. A form of intellectual meritocracy, with (fairly) clear criteria for evaluating merit. 

Pity the real world of politics and governance is too complicated for it still, in large part because of the diversity of people. Yeah, even that guy

Wendy P.

[brenthutch 383]

22 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

No - Nothing like that at all.

The premise you speak of was because there was not a lot of people that could get high enough above see level to notice the curvature of the earth.

Nobody was talking about a flat earth, the notion of a spherical earth goes back to 500BC

Edited March 2, 2020 by brenthutch

[DJL 232]

56 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Nobody was talking about a flat earth, the notion of a spherical earth goes back to 500BC

It's just funny that you're trying of make a point using things that were theorized and then proven by individual research and replicated until a scientific consensus was formed but still had detractors for a very long time.

[airdvr 197]

12 hours ago, billvon said:

As bad as some people here are, there's a lot worse out there.  Example - a Canadian oil company, X-Site, now has their workers sporting a sticker showing Thunberg being raped with their logo beneath it.  A reporter called and asked X-Site's general manager Doug Sparrow “You’re okay then with having your logo attached to a sticker that depicts the rape of a child?" His response - "she's not a child, she’s 17."

Classy guy.

I saw the sticker.  So wrong.

[billvon 2,396]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

More like, you can have 5000+ years of precedent and the collective wisdom of the greatest minds the world has ever known, (AKA scientific consensus) and then some knucklehead from Poland comes along and suggests that the earth might not be in the center of the universe.  Oh the temerity!

Crucify Galileo!  Crucify Bruno!  Crucify Mann!  Crucify Greta!  They are telling us things that are upsetting the status quo!  Life is easier without knowing.

[brenthutch 383]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Crucify Galileo!  

It was Copernicus, not Galileo. You are a walking example of how life is easier without knowing.

[kallend 1,623]

8 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

It was Copernicus, not Galileo. You are a walking example of how life is easier without knowing.

It was Galileo who was placed under house arrest by the Inquisition for defying the teachings of the church.

[brenthutch 383]

8 minutes ago, kallend said:

It was Galileo who was placed under house arrest by the Inquisition for defying the teachings of the church.

who said anything about being put under house arrest?  And what does that have to do with Copernicus, proving that the earth is not the center of the universe?

[kallend 1,623]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

who said anything about being put under house arrest?  And what does that have to do with Copernicus, proving that the earth is not the center of the universe?

You aren't paying attention to the metaphor, are you?

[Phil1111 910]

4 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Interesting source for a statement about scientific consensus. Of course, historically what we now call science was called natural philosophy, and there wasn't a scientific method -- it took the analysis of "smart men" to come up with new ideas. Part of the point of the scientific method was to reduce the sole reliance on "smart men" and reputation -- it allows for the evaluation of data and methods, rather than simply evaluating the source. A form of intellectual meritocracy, with (fairly) clear criteria for evaluating merit. 

Pity the real world of politics and governance is too complicated for it still, in large part because of the diversity of people. Yeah, even that guy

Wendy P.

Famous Autistic People in History

Henry Cavendish – Scientist

Paul Dirac – Physicist

Albert Einstein – Scientist & Mathematician

Bobby Fischer – Chess Grandmaster

Thomas Jefferson – Early American Politician

Steve Jobs – Former CEO of Apple

Michelangelo – Sculptor, Painter, Architect, Poet

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart – Classical Composer

Sir Isaac Newton – Mathematician, Astronomer, & Physicist

[airdvr 197]

But they had new ideas.  Shutting down the current economy isn't a new idea.

[billvon 2,396]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

But they had new ideas.  Shutting down the current economy isn't a new idea.

Creating an entirely new industry certainly is.  Switching from coal to nuclear/solar certainly is.  Going to EV's certainly is.

Every time anyone has changed anything - from ending slavery to replacing horse carts with trucks to rural electrification - that's been the rallying call.  "Ending slavery will end the economy in the south!"  "How will common merchants move their goods without horse drawn carts?"  They've all been wrong - and have all been shoved aside by the new economic engines that replaced them.

One of the central ideas in eliminating CO2 has been moving from gasoline to renewable electricity.  One company doing this, Tesla, has sold almost a million EV's for prices ranging from $36,000 to $205,000.  That would seem to be the exact opposite of "shutting down the economy."

 

[airdvr 197]

6 minutes ago, billvon said:

Creating an entirely new industry certainly is.  Switching from coal to nuclear/solar certainly is.  Going to EV's certainly is.

Every time anyone has changed anything - from ending slavery to replacing horse carts with trucks to rural electrification - that's been the rallying call.  "Ending slavery will end the economy in the south!"  "How will common merchants move their goods without horse drawn carts?"  They've all been wrong - and have all been shoved aside by the new economic engines that replaced them.

One of the central ideas in eliminating CO2 has been moving from gasoline to renewable electricity.  One company doing this, Tesla, has sold almost a million EV's for prices ranging from $36,000 to $205,000.  That would seem to be the exact opposite of "shutting down the economy."

 

Tesla's rise is due in part to gas prices, not climate change.  Trucks?  Market forces and the ability to make a dollar..  Electrification.  Market forces and the ability to make a dollar.

But she isn't talking about letting market forces do their work.  .This is what she wants...

“We demand that at this year’s World Economic Forum participants from all companies, banks, institutions and governments:

“Immediately halt all investments in fossil fuel exploration and extraction.

“Immediately end all fossil fuel subsidies.

“And immediately and completely divest from fossil fuels.

“We don’t want these things done by 2050, 2030 or even 2021, we want this done now.
“It may seem like we’re asking for a lot. And you will, of course, say that we are naive. But this is just the very minimum amount of effort that is needed to start the rapid sustainable transition.

Good luck with that.

 

[billvon 2,396]

25 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Tesla's rise is due in part to gas prices, not climate change.  Trucks?  Market forces and the ability to make a dollar..  Electrification.  Market forces and the ability to make a dollar.

From a 2018 poll of Tesla drivers on why they bought their cars:

• Climate change 50.5%
• Performance 43.0%
• Autonomous driving 35.2%
• Fuel costs 10.7%

Quote

But she isn't talking about letting market forces do their work.  .This is what she wants...

“We demand that at this year’s World Economic Forum participants from all companies, banks, institutions and governments:

“Immediately halt all investments in fossil fuel exploration and extraction.

“Immediately end all fossil fuel subsidies.

“And immediately and completely divest from fossil fuels.

“We don’t want these things done by 2050, 2030 or even 2021, we want this done now.

Right.  That's what she wants for her future - and what many younger people want.  (And you want some of them, too.)

So you have a choice.  Invest in coal mines and power plants, or invest in EV's and solar.  Which is the wiser investment?  Which will result in a booming US economy and a good amount of retirement savings, and which will result in the US becoming a third rate economic power with a shut down economy, while your retirement account dwindles and you beg the government for free stuff?  Want the US to lead, or to start begging other countries to not lead so fast because it's too hard to keep up?

[Phil1111 910]

22 minutes ago, billvon said:

From a 2018 poll of Tesla drivers on why they bought their cars:

• Climate change 50.5%
• Performance 43.0%
• Autonomous driving 35.2%
• Fuel costs 10.7%

Right.  That's what she wants for her future - and what many younger people want.  (And you want some of them, too.)

So you have a choice.  Invest in coal mines and power plants, or invest in EV's and solar.  Which is the wiser investment?  Which will result in a booming US economy and a good amount of retirement savings, and which will result in the US becoming a third rate economic power with a shut down economy, while your retirement account dwindles and you beg the government for free stuff?  Want the US to lead, or to start begging other countries to not lead so fast because it's too hard to keep up?

Both yourself and Kallend run neck and neck for concise and well documented responses, well done. I'd add the latest US Gallup poll on environmental issues for US respondents.

In poll after poll the majority of US residents want greater standards for environmental protections. In addition most feel the US government is not doing a satisfactory job. Including 69% of Americans that support the Paris climate accord agrement.

[brenthutch 383]

22 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Both yourself and Kallend run neck and neck for concise and well documented responses, well done. I'd add the latest US Gallup poll on environmental issues for US respondents.

In poll after poll the majority of US residents want greater standards for environmental protections. In addition most feel the US government is not doing a satisfactory job. Including 69% of Americans that support the Paris climate accord agrement.

When you break out "climate change" in its own category it doesn't even make the top 10.