Glide Path Nova

[skybytch 259]

We picked up a Nova 150 for the collection a few years back from an old friend. It's in great shape, probably because it didn't have many jumps on it when they were grounded.

I know they were grounded because people died, but I don't remember the exact issues the canopy had. This is a long shot, but any old farts out remember anything about it?  Maybe jumped one back in the day (billvon?)?  

Can someone remind me why this canopy should never be jumped again (other than the whole grounding thing)?  If it were jumped today, would a person be breaking any "rules"?  How about in an intentional cutaway rig?

I'm know it's a stupid idea, but I'd really love to jump it even though it's probably way beyond me even at a 1.0 wingloading. It'd be one for the logbook, for sure! But the husband won't let me (smart man he is)... so I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what I'm missing. 
 

[wolfriverjoe 1,462]

Before my time, but I've heard the stories.
I do believe Billvon was around when they came out and subsequently were found to be a really bad idea to fly.

 

What I remember (which may or may not be correct) is that they flew great under normal conditions. But had a tendency for the nose to fold under and collapse the entire canopy in turbulence. Think about that happening in the pattern. 

Mains are not 'certified' in any way. So my understanding is that the grounding is entirely advisory, not under rule (again, could be wrong on that). However, I can't imagine any DZ allowing you to jump it. 
The only way jumping it on an intentional cutaway rig would be 'safe'(ish) would be to cut it away on every jump. 

I do believe we should mark this day on the calendar.

A husband was right and his wife was wrong.

I would strongly suggest leaving this one for display purposes only.

Edit to add:

I really don't think you will be 'missing' much. My understanding (and could be wrong on that yet again) is that it was a 'sporty' canopy.
You can get the same or better 'sportiness' under any modern elliptical. Just without the 'Russian Roulette' aspect. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by wolfriverjoe

[skybytch 259]

42 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

The only way jumping it on an intentional cutaway rig would be 'safe'(ish) would be to cut it away on every jump. 

Agree. I can't see anyone jumping it more than once. Kinda like a round; another canopy to add to the "I've jumped that" list. 

 

43 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I do believe we should mark this day on the calendar.

A husband was right and his wife was wrong.

Happens all the time around here.  But I'm not the typical wife, so... 

[mark 107]

38 minutes ago, skybytch said:

Agree. I can't see anyone jumping it more than once. Kinda like a round; another canopy to add to the "I've jumped that" list.

Okay, if you must.  Do not attempt to land it.

[stratostar 5]

They would fold up on users too low to do anything to save your ass, after a number of people were killed they got banned.  I used to know someone who had one and he would land it post ban.  Everyone thought he was an idiot for jumping it.  Cut away rig would be a good idea if you plan to jump it. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by stratostar

[rjklein4470 23]

I had many jumps on a Nova.  The design was sound, but the canopy had to be made to the specifications, and at the time that proved to be challenging.  So as a result the canopies that were out of spec had problems, and the problems happened close to the ground.  Glide path bought by canopy back, then I got a Johnathan.  Look that one up.

[RiggerLee 61]

I do remember these but it was at the very beginning of my jumping so I can't say that I had full understanding of the issues at the time. Here is what I can put together from my current understanding crossed with my spotty memories of that time. Keep in mind that this was around the time of transition from F-111 to ZP canopies. It was not uncommon for people to still buy F-111 canopies at least as their first canopy. The saber had been out for a while. Precision was building the Monarch. I'm trying to remember if the Stiletto was out yet but I don't think so at least not where I was at. Glide path needed a new canopy. They had been playing with a design called Ariel in various forms. I knew a big cameraman guy from canada that had been doing some test jumping for them and still had one of the prototypes. The Nova was another design that they were playing with. Paragliders were getting better and I once heard that the air foil was based on one? Rumor. CFD was getting better and I heard that they had hired a consultant to help them with the new design. Rumor. What I actually know. One of our instructors went off to Quincy and jumped a bunch of their demos that year. He came back to Texas and we got a couple in that he and others were jumping. For Glide path they were supposed to be the hot new canopy better then the Saber. I don't think I jumped any of them. They were out side my skill set at the time. But I remember that Scot liked them. I packed them for him and he had good openings then one bad one. It of course happened when he was shooting video Which was a lot more chalenging back then when the cameras weighed over 7 lb. I'm trying to remember if he bought one but he got sick with ball cancer and quit jumping. No one considered  them to be bad canopies. There were no problems with them around here. Then there were a couple of incidents. High profile very public incidents, I think in FL but I don't recall which drop zone. Collapse on approach to landing, possible turbulence. Suddenly people started to get gun shy of them. Glide Path went into panic mode and recalled them. I'm not sure if they ever really came to a conclusion as to the root cause of the issues on those canopies. And I  don't think it was wide spread. There were not a lot of them out there but they were out there and people liked them and were not dieing. They didn't have flares like most of there canopies. I heard that the tape they put in the bottom seam to spread the load was shrinking and distorting the airfoil. Rumor. Line shrinkage was not a widely known concept at the time and I have heard since then that the collapses were caused by them going out of trim. Rumor. I don't recall it having a nose on it like you see on many canopies today. PD had some kind of patent on how they sewed their nose lip, I recall that later Flight Concepts was trying to work around that in their construction on newer canopies. I've heard theories that the issues were with how the canopy pitched front to back, when a canopy surges forwards it loses lift on the front of the canopy and the front can roll under. I herd that this was a product of the airfoil, the max thickness being farther back then on other canopies. Rumor. None of it really mattered. They pulled the cutaway handle. I don't know if there was a lawsuit or just the fear of one but Mike Furry got out. He was done. Some of the other people there went on to buy him out and start over with a, legally, unrelated company, Flight Concepts. They went on to build many good canopies including CRW canopies. They have kind of fallen off the stage as far as sky diving is concerned which is a shame. 

 

I don't think there was any thing special about the Nova. It was just another of the post Saber ZP nine cells. It was an early attempt at a "high performance canopy" and it seemed to be a good canopy but I don't think it would be any thing to write home about to day except for the mystique that has grown up around it. I wound up with one years later. A 170 or maybe a 190 I think. Too big for me never jumped it. I was surprised how many people were interested in it. Gave it to a CRW guy that was smart enough not to jump it in turbulence and he never had a problem with it. I think he sold it to his DZO, lost track of it sense then. I think people blow them out of proportion both their porformance and there problems. If you want to jump it, I'd say do it. I'd advise you to play with it up high testing it's stability. I'd advise against jumping it on a turbulent day. But if it behaved up high I would probable land it. See what the fuss is about but I think I think that you will find that there is no fuss and if you a sencable about where and when you jump it I don't think you will be in any real danger. 

 

Lee

[lars_d 4]

15 hours ago, skybytch said:

We picked up a Nova 150 for the collection a few years back from an old friend. It's in great shape, probably because it didn't have many jumps on it when they were grounded.

I know they were grounded because people died, but I don't remember the exact issues the canopy had. This is a long shot, but any old farts out remember anything about it?  Maybe jumped one back in the day (billvon?)?  

Can someone remind me why this canopy should never be jumped again (other than the whole grounding thing)?  If it were jumped today, would a person be breaking any "rules"?  How about in an intentional cutaway rig?

I'm know it's a stupid idea, but I'd really love to jump it even though it's probably way beyond me even at a 1.0 wingloading. It'd be one for the logbook, for sure! But the husband won't let me (smart man he is)... so I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me what I'm missing. 
 

In 2012  I bought a Nova 120 (DOM 1992) on ebay. It was like new, probably 10 jumps on it when it was grounded and never jumped again. I did a few jumps with it without an issue. As far as I remember I gave it to Brian Vacher from PDFT afterwards.

 

[skybytch 259]

9 hours ago, rjklein4470 said:

then I got a Johnathan.  Look that one up.

I think we have one of those too. Hmmm.....

[lars_d 4]

9 minutes ago, skybytch said:

I think we have one of those too. Hmmm.....

I remember the Jonathan opens quite fast.

[DougH 270]

Self packing parachute, bad voodoo.

I have only been in the sport 14 years, but I ran into one or two messed up jumpers with nicknames like Nova Jeff, who had their Nova's wad up too low to do anything about it, but two high to get away without some serious injury.

[riggerrob 600]

I jumped Nova 150 about 50 times and enjoyed it.

Openings were a bit harder than modern ZP canopies, but about the norm for the early 1990s. The only problem occurred when I pulled down on a front riser, then the leading edge folded under!

I also have a few hundred jumps on an Ariel 150 along with many hundreds more on Sabre 170, 150 and 135. Eventually I graduated to a Stiletto 135. I weighed about 190 pounds (naked) back in those days.

[baronn 111]

Anybody have any knowledge on a Glide Path Raider? Had someone bring me a rig that has 1 in it. 1991 is the date. R-2145. Max wing load is 235

Thanks

Edited July 18, 2023 by baronn

[JerryBaumchen 1,271]

2 hours ago, baronn said:

Anybody have any knowledge on a Glide Path Raider? Had someone bring me a rig that has 1 in it. 1991 is the date. R-2145. Max wing load is 235

Thanks

Hi baronn,

I was going to tell you to go the Flight Concepts website, but it looks like they might be no more:  flightconcepts.com

What is it you want to know?  Some of us old farts on here might have some info for you.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  One thing that was interesting about Flight Concepts is that they demanded that the fabric in their reserves be NOT pull tested.

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by JerryBaumchen

[gowlerk 2,099]

2 hours ago, baronn said:

Anybody have any knowledge on a Glide Path Raider? Had someone bring me a rig that has 1 in it. 1991 is the date. R-2145. Max wing load is 235

Thanks

Basically an old school seven cell F111 canopy tweaked into a 9 cell design with a slightly higher aspect ratio. Obsolete and of no monetary value anymore, but still usable if airworthy.

Edited July 18, 2023 by gowlerk

[skyderrill66 15]

They have a bad rep for hurting people. A girl i knew jumped one and was badly injured and that is why they did not last long on the market. I would not jump it.

[RiggerLee 61]

I believe she is referring to the Nova.

The Raider was one of their f111 nine cells. I want to say that it was around 220 sqft but don't quote me on that. It was a solid canopy. I knew several people that had them. They were very much on par with the other canopies of that period. It's equivalent to a PD 210 or a Falcon 235.

 

Lee

[RiggerLee 61]

And by the way. I beleive it's based on their own 7 cell firelite. Good seven cell often used as a reserve. It was 172 sqft. If you expand that to a nine cell you get 221 sqft which I believe is what the Raider is.

 

Lee

[irishrigger 32]

I had a Raider-230 Nine Cell Canopy in the early 90's. I did about 40 jumps on it and had no Issues and the canopy was jumped quiet a few times after that. Eventually a few years later, it was hard to get a decent Flare out of it, especially in Nil wind Landings. 

It was gracefully and respectfully retired on a Bonfire to a lot of cheering :)

 

Rodger

[billvon 2,738]

18 hours ago, skyderrill66 said:

They have a bad rep for hurting people. A girl i knew jumped one and was badly injured and that is why they did not last long on the market. I would not jump it.

I did about 20 jumps on one.  Great flare, hard openings, squirrely in turbulence.  I was glad to have it for one jump where I pulled at about 1000 feet (and was the highest person open on our 4-way.) I pulled at 1000 feet and was open by 900.

[skyderrill66 15]

squirrely in turbulence is what injured my friend. I watched from above and knew she was hurt.

[koppel 4]

On 7/19/2023 at 7:47 AM, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi baronn,

I was going to tell you to go the Flight Concepts website, but it looks like they might be no more:  flightconcepts.com

What is it you want to know?  Some of us old farts on here might have some info for you.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  One thing that was interesting about Flight Concepts is that they demanded that the fabric in their reserves be NOT pull tested.

 

here you go Jerry

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20160731203150/http://flightconcepts.com/

 

 

[riggerrob 600]

On 7/18/2023 at 3:49 PM, gowlerk said:

Basically an old school seven cell F111 canopy tweaked into a 9 cell design with a slightly higher aspect ratio. Obsolete and of no monetary value anymore, but still usable if airworthy.

Probably still airworthy as long as you keep the wing-loading well below 1 pound per square foot. Like most canopies made of F-111 fabric (pre-zero porosity). Back then no-one regularly loaded canopies much more than 0.7 pounds-per-square foot. WARNING: exceeding more than 0.7 pounds-per-square-foot will result in injuries on most F-111 canopies. 

IOW F-111 canopies can only be jumped at 1 pound-per-square-foot when new. They soon lose/gain porosity so after 50 jumps, it would be unwise to load them too heavily. 

[billeisele 130]

I've made 50 - 100 jumps on the Nova with no issues. It was designed by a German guy, can't remember his name. It was on the cutting edge and needed to be kept in trim. We were jumping it at the old Z-Hills in a Teardrop container. After a few jumps they would go over to Derek's shop in town and make minor changes, then jump it again. I distinctly remember the first jump making a low approach way before the beer line. Folks starting yelling beer then stopped as it made a long glide landing well past the line. At the time it didn't have a label on it and everyone wanted to know what it was.

Before that I jumped a Raider. Switched from the Nova to an Aerial. Jumped that for a few years until it was for sale and stolen by a supposed "friend." I know a guy that still occasionally jumps his Nova, the label is removed.