Walmart shooting - El Paso

[DJL 232]

9 hours ago, nigel99 said:

Trump has said shootings need to stop. Considering his typical knee jerk reactions to problems, I would find it amusing if Trump was the President that by Executive Order enacted a strict gun law.

If he made even a peep about taking action he'd have every major Republican politician jammed into the oval office explaining how they'd lose their most important election tools.

Edited August 5, 2019 by DJL

[billvon 2,380]

Today we saw what the Republican narrative will be for these shootings.

Usually it's easy, and the narrative emerges within minutes after the shooter's picture is posted.  They just take a look at the picture.  If he is:

Arab: "Religion of peace my ass!  Trump was right to ban Muslims from traveling.  Are you libs ready to admit you were wrong, or do you need another dozen innocent kids killed?  Huh?"

Black: "See?  Maybe we'd take Black Lives Matter more seriously if blacks thought white lives mattered.  It's because of the inner city black culture.  The father always runs out, see, and the children are raised by gang members.  Change your own culture before you demand we change ours!"

Mexican: "BUILD THE WALL!  Anyone who opposes Trump's wall is complicit in this murder.  Their blood is on YOUR hands."

But this time they were both white, and one was a white supremacist - and they were both heavily armed.  So it's taken them a while to find a narrative.  Because to the GOP, the shooter looks a lot like . . .  one of them.  And there's no way they are going to blame themselves or guns.

Finally, a day later, Ohio representative Candice Keller has arrived at a narrative that blames everything but heavily armed white supremacist murderers:

"the breakdown of the traditional American family(thank you, transgender, homosexual marriage, and drag queen advocates); fatherlessness, a subject no one discusses or believes is relevant; the ignoring of violent video games; the relaxing of laws against criminals(open borders); the acceptance of recreational marijuana; failed school policies(hello, parents who defend misbehaving students): disrespect to law enforcement(thank you, Obama)."

So in order, the blame for this falls on gays, single moms, drag queens, video games, no wall, pot, school bullies and Obama.

Thank God no white person holds any responsibility for this!  Otherwise, things might have to change.

[kallend 1,621]

5 minutes ago, billvon said:

Today we saw what the Republican narrative will be for these shootings.

Usually it's easy, and the narrative emerges within minutes after the shooter's picture is posted.  They just take a look at the picture.  If he is:

Arab: "Religion of peace my ass!  Trump was right to ban Muslims from traveling.  Are you libs ready to admit you were wrong, or do you need another dozen innocent kids killed?  Huh?"

Black: "See?  Maybe we'd take Black Lives Matter more seriously if blacks thought white lives mattered.  It's because of the inner city black culture.  The father always runs out, see, and the children are raised by gang members.  Change your own culture before you demand we change ours!"

Mexican: "BUILD THE WALL!  Anyone who opposes Trump's wall is complicit in this murder.  Their blood is on YOUR hands."

But this time they were both white, and one was a white supremacist - and they were both heavily armed.  So it's taken them a while to find a narrative.  Because to the GOP, the shooter looks a lot like . . .  one of them.  And there's no way they are going to blame themselves or guns.

Finally, a day later, Ohio representative Candice Keller has arrived at a narrative that blames everything but heavily armed white supremacist murderers:

"the breakdown of the traditional American family(thank you, transgender, homosexual marriage, and drag queen advocates); fatherlessness, a subject no one discusses or believes is relevant; the ignoring of violent video games; the relaxing of laws against criminals(open borders); the acceptance of recreational marijuana; failed school policies(hello, parents who defend misbehaving students): disrespect to law enforcement(thank you, Obama)."

So in order, the blame for this falls on gays, single moms, drag queens, video games, no wall, pot, school bullies and Obama.

Thank God no white person holds any responsibility for this!  Otherwise, things might have to change.

The NRA has bought the Republican party, lock, stock and barrel.

[neilmck 36]

2 hours ago, Erroll said:

This is true, even now if I listen to what he said, one time in three I hear it incorrectly even though I now know what he really said.  Besides if I was trolling I wouldn't have replied to your post.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

2 hours ago, billvon said:

Today we saw what the Republican narrative will be for these shootings.

Usually it's easy, and the narrative emerges within minutes after the shooter's picture is posted.  They just take a look at the picture.  If he is:

Arab: "Religion of peace my ass!  Trump was right to ban Muslims from traveling.  Are you libs ready to admit you were wrong, or do you need another dozen innocent kids killed?  Huh?"

Black: "See?  Maybe we'd take Black Lives Matter more seriously if blacks thought white lives mattered.  It's because of the inner city black culture.  The father always runs out, see, and the children are raised by gang members.  Change your own culture before you demand we change ours!"

Mexican: "BUILD THE WALL!  Anyone who opposes Trump's wall is complicit in this murder.  Their blood is on YOUR hands."

But this time they were both white, and one was a white supremacist - and they were both heavily armed.  So it's taken them a while to find a narrative.  Because to the GOP, the shooter looks a lot like . . .  one of them.  And there's no way they are going to blame themselves or guns.

Finally, a day later, Ohio representative Candice Keller has arrived at a narrative that blames everything but heavily armed white supremacist murderers:

"the breakdown of the traditional American family(thank you, transgender, homosexual marriage, and drag queen advocates); fatherlessness, a subject no one discusses or believes is relevant; the ignoring of violent video games; the relaxing of laws against criminals(open borders); the acceptance of recreational marijuana; failed school policies(hello, parents who defend misbehaving students): disrespect to law enforcement(thank you, Obama)."

So in order, the blame for this falls on gays, single moms, drag queens, video games, no wall, pot, school bullies and Obama.

Thank God no white person holds any responsibility for this!  Otherwise, things might have to change.

Meanwhile, over in the Garlic patch, Brent shoots right past the need for any supporting narrative and simply makes an all about him joke about his love of assault rifles. Apparently, it does not matter to him at all that because of assault rifles dozens of people woke up today to their fresh, new hell that will never go away.

The truth is their actual narrative is far simpler: we have the second amendment so go fuck yourselves. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by JoeWeber

[ryoder 1,381]

Remember Toledo!

 

[billvon 2,380]

Let's read these Trump comments in chronological order:

"FAKE NEWS media knowingly doesn't tell the truth. A great danger to our country!"

"Fake News has contributed greatly to the anger and rage that has built up over many years.  News coverage has got to start being fair, balanced and unbiased, or these terrible problems will only get worse!"

"May God bless the memory of those who perished in Toledo, may God protect them."

[kallend 1,621]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

 

"May God bless the memory of those who perished in Toledo, may God protect them."

Before Ron dismisses this as fake news, here it is direct from Trump's mouth:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/08/05/president-trump-toledo-tim-ryan-reaction-tweet-sot-nr-vpx.cnn

[riggerrob 558]

4 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

.................... The truth is their actual narrative is far simpler: we have the second amendment so go fuck yourselves. .........

Constitutional amendments can be revoked.

[ryoder 1,381]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

Before Ron dismisses this as fake news, here it is direct from Trump's mouth:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/08/05/president-trump-toledo-tim-ryan-reaction-tweet-sot-nr-vpx.cnn

Sure, the mainstream media wants us to think it happened in Dayton, but now we know it was really Toledo.

[billvon 2,380]

21 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Sure, the mainstream media wants us to think it happened in Dayton, but now we know it was really Toledo.

That's because they are part of the lamestream reality based community.  A former GOP administration official said it best:

============

[The media is part of] 'what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.   That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do'.

============

 

 

 

[nigel99 143]

10 hours ago, DJL said:

If he made even a peep about taking action he'd have every major Republican politician jammed into the oval office explaining how they'd lose their most important election tools.

You are correct. I was watching the clip of Trump, there is a sound bite that the team have put in ‘mental illness and hate pull the trigger, not the gun’. Honestly it is that sentiment that sets the USA apart from the  rest of the world. The word gun did not need to enter that speech once. It could have carried just as much weight if not more without that soundbite. It is pretty clearly placed in their to appease the base/NRA/2nd amendment people

[brenthutch 383]

If only we had operational control of our boarders and adhered to our own immigration laws, Trump would not be president and our streets would not be running red with the blood of the innocent.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

4 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

If only we had operational control of our boarders and adhered to our own immigration laws, Trump would not be president and our streets would not be running red with the blood of the innocent.

Nonsense. Las Vegas wasn't a white on brown attack and neither was Dayton, Parkland, Pittsburgh, Aurora etc. etc. etc.

[brenthutch 383]

14 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Nonsense. Las Vegas wasn't a white on brown attack and neither was Dayton, Parkland, Pittsburgh, Aurora etc. etc. etc.

You are correct, I should have said the trump would not be president and our streets would not be running AS red with the bold of innocents.  

On a side note, do you or don’t you feel that out country should follow its laws?

[yobnoc 142]

11 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

You are correct, I should have said the trump would not be president and our streets would not be running AS red with the bold of innocents.  

On a side note, do you or don’t you feel that out country should follow its laws?

(a) Authority to apply for asylum

(1) In general

Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title.

8 U.S. Code § 1158

 

Yes...I do think we ought to start following the law, instead of treating asylum seekers as criminals and locking them up whilst removing their children (some as young as 4 months old) from their parents with no competent program to track the separated families and reunite them. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by yobnoc
added the US code for reference

[normiss 620]

10 hours ago, kallend said:

The NRA has bought the Republican party, lock, stock and barrel.

With a very heavy aus jus of religious insanity.

It's exactly like extreme islamism. Complete hatred, celebration of death for all living beings, and the glory of dying.

Insanity and anti human life.

[normiss 620]

35 minutes ago, yobnoc said:

(a) Authority to apply for asylum

(1) In general

Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title.

8 U.S. Code § 1158

 

Yes...I do think we ought to start following the law, instead of treating asylum seekers as criminals and locking them up whilst removing their children (some as young as 4 months old) from their parents with no competent program to track the separated families and reunite them. 

As I understand my family history, this is pretty much how we came here.

Like most everyone else for that matter.

Some people ain't smart enough to understand that though.

[kallend 1,621]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

If only we had operational control of our boarders and adhered to our own immigration laws, Trump would not be president and our streets would not be running red with the blood of the innocent.

Nonsense:  AirBnB has a very effective way of controlling boarders (but I'm not sure what lodging arrangements have to do with this thread).

If we did a better job of educating Americans then Trump would not be president.   

[normiss 620]

29 minutes ago, kallend said:

Nonsense:  AirBnB has a very effective way of controlling boarders (but I'm not sure what lodging arrangements have to do with this thread).

If we did a better job of educating Americans then Trump would not be president.   

You gotta see the right wing law regarding AirBnB, Florida, and the Middle East...I must find this.

Quickest find

 

[billvon 2,380]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

If only we had operational control of our boarders and adhered to our own immigration laws, Trump would not be president and our streets would not be running red with the blood of the innocent.

There ya go.  It wasn't the gun or the shooter, it was the porous borders that caused these mass murders!  (And, from another conservative - gay marriage, drag queens, single moms, social media, video games and Obama.  Any other political agendas you want to staple to the corpses?)

[JoeWeber 2,294]

4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

You are correct, I should have said the trump would not be president and our streets would not be running AS red with the bold of innocents.  

On a side note, do you or don’t you feel that out country should follow its laws?

No, you should not have said that either. I absolutely feel, and believe, that our nations laws should be followed. But for certain you are referencing immigration and that gets us into confusing territory. Not so much about the mechanics of it but rather about how we citizens see it. I'm chill about immigration because I see huge upside to it. Mostly what I see are super hard working family people who not only work in Tysons awful chicken factories but also tend the local farms and operate the freakin' awesome food trucks here and there. I do not see them taking jobs from anyone, far from it. I see them taking jobs that are not getting filled otherwise. To my eye, that's a win for all of us.

I do think we need to control our borders in a serious way. But we do and have been doing so for a long time. The thing is that last week and this week and next week are not evidence of how we handled the thing. Nothing going on in a year will make or break our nation. So I think we can stay chill, stay humane, keep tight to what makes Americans loved around the world and stop being assholes just because some fuck nut who crawled under the baseboards into the White House has so inspired us.

 

[nigel99 143]

15 hours ago, kallend said:

The NRA has bought the Republican party, lock, stock and barrel.

If there was any time that the gun control lobby could attack the NRA politically it would be now. Go hard on ‘reasonable’ gun laws and go full attack on NRA while making sure to highlight the NRA Russian links.

[Hooknswoop 19]

No posts about the 40 victims of gun violence in Chicago over the weekend?  Or does 1’s and 2’s not get the headlines and emotional response that a mass shooting does?

Neil Degrasse Tyson is right.  Hard to argue with numbers.  Is it about saving lives or gun control?

What are the leading causes of death in the US?  Around 74% of all deaths in the United States occur as a result of 10 causes.

• Heart disease.
• Cancer.
• Unintentional injuries.
• Chronic lower respiratory disease.
• Stroke and cerebrovascular diseases.
• Alzheimer's disease.
• Diabetes.
• Influenza and pneumonia.
• kidney disease.
• Suicide.

Lifetime odds of dying in a motor vehicle accident- 1 in 108.  (Just missed making the top ten, it is number 11).

Lifetime odds of dying in a mass shooting- 1 in 11,125.

Where should we as a society spend our time, energy, and resources to get the most lives saved for least effort spent?  I’m not saying do nothing or nothing can be done.  I think we should enforce the current laws for sure.  What I am saying is if I am not breathing and have a cut on my leg that is going to require stitches, don’t start discussing the best way to sew me up.

I get it, we are wired to react emotionally to mass shootings.  The same way there can be 30 people die in separate motor vehicle accidents won’t make the national news, but 30 people dying in a bus crash will.  But if we focus on bus crashes, how many lives will be saved per year vs. if we spent the same time on motor vehicle crashes?

People complain that nothing is done after a mass shooting.  That is because there are no easy fixes to that issue.

Derek V

[yoink 321]

10 hours ago, billvon said:

There ya go.  It wasn't the gun or the shooter, it was the porous borders that caused these mass murders!  (And, from another conservative - gay marriage, drag queens, single moms, social media, video games and Obama.  Any other political agendas you want to staple to the corpses?)

When was the last mass shooting that was committed by an illegal immigrant?