Walmart shooting - El Paso

[yoink 321]

Thoughts, Pr...

etc etc.

 

Whatever.

[tonyhays 86]

Only 19 dead.

Amateur.

[jclalor 12]

If a classroom full of first graders being shot to pieces doesn’t change our gun culture, nothing will.

[kallend 1,819]

Three mass shootings in a week is more than the next bloodiest western nation has managed all year.

American Exceptionalism.

[RMK 3]

I can’t really see the photo clearly, but is that redneck white trash actually wearing eye and ear protection to go on a mass-murder shooting spree?  Only in America.

Edited August 4, 2019 by RMK

[kallend 1,819]

And another, in Dayton, OH

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/dayton-ohio-shooting-nine-people-killed-mass-shooting-today-2019-08-04-live-stream-updates/

 

[yoink 321]

38 minutes ago, kallend said:

And another, in Dayton, OH

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/dayton-ohio-shooting-nine-people-killed-mass-shooting-today-2019-08-04-live-stream-updates/

 

Nothing to be done.

Carry on about your business as usual.

[kallend 1,819]

5 minutes ago, yoink said:

Nothing to be done.

Carry on about your business as usual.

That is certainly true as long as the NRA and its shills in Congress (along with people like Coreece and BH) refuse to acknowledge that lax gun laws have anything to do with mass shootings.

[billvon 2,690]

4 minutes ago, kallend said:

That is certainly true as long as the NRA and its shills in Congress (along with people like Coreece and BH) refuse to acknowledge that lax gun laws have anything to do with mass shootings.

While there are plenty of people who advocate doing nothing, I would point out that Coreece supports a plan to reduce shootings, a plan which has shown to be effective.  While gun regulation can be one part of a solution to gun violence, it is certainly not the only method that works.

So there is certainly something that can be done even if gun laws aren't changed.

[kallend 1,819]

1 minute ago, billvon said:

While there are plenty of people who advocate doing nothing, I would point out that Coreece supports a plan to reduce shootings, a plan which has shown to be effective.  While gun regulation can be one part of a solution to gun violence, it is certainly not the only method that works.

So there is certainly something that can be done even if gun laws aren't changed.

When US homicide rates (per 100,000) reach the levels in Australia, western Europe and Scandinavia without changing gun laws, I'll acknowledge that approach works.  It's not as if those nations are free of the social problems that we have.

Tyically our overall homicide rate is around 4x that of other developed nations, but when gun homicides are excluded, our rate is comparable to theirs.

[billvon 2,690]

3 minutes ago, kallend said:

When US homicide rates (per 100,000) reach the levels in Australia, western Europe and Scandinavia without changing gun laws, I'll acknowledge that approach works.  It's not as if those nations are free of the social problems that we have.

Tyically our overall homicide rate is around 4x that of other developed nations, but when gun homicides are excluded, our rate is comparable to theirs.

You are arguing that there is only one factor causing gun homicides in the US, and that unless you address that one factor, you are doing nothing.

That is akin to arguing that the one factor causing skydiving deaths is small canopies, and unless you ban them, nothing else will make a difference in fatality rates.  Not AAD's, not separated landing areas, not canopy control training, not pattern discipline.  And therefore Helmut Cloth has done nothing to improve skydiving safety.

Not a valid argument IMO.

[neilmck 36]

Small canopies is probably the major cause of death and injury in skydiving today.  Tightly regulating them in France has drastically reduced the death and injury rate here.  Everyone knows gun control will drastically reduce the murder rate in the USA.  Criminals will still have a reduced access to illegal guns but when your average guy flips he will not have the material at hand nor the ability to access it to do a mass killing.

The big problem in the US is even with gun control how do you remove the large number of guns already out there.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by neilmck

[yoink 321]

Time.

 

Any solution will take centuries to fully enact and guns that already in circulation to be lost or destroyed.

 

At this point all I’d like to see is a general bipartisan agreement that there is a problem that’s unique to the US.

Without that NOTHING can ever be accomplished, but even that might be too optimistic.

Edited August 4, 2019 by yoink

[kallend 1,819]

6 hours ago, billvon said:

You are arguing that there is only one factor causing gun homicides in the US, and that unless you address that one factor, you are doing nothing.

 

NO, that is not what I am arguing.  I am arguing that the overwhelming factor making a DIFFERENCE between the USA and the rest of the developed world in murders is the easy availability of guns.

You are an engineer.  You know about absolute values and differences.

[billvon 2,690]

20 hours ago, jclalor said:

If a classroom full of first graders being shot to pieces doesn’t change our gun culture, nothing will.

Yep.  Sadly I think it would take a country club full of wealthy white older GOP campaign donors being shot to pieces (by yet another white supremacist) to make any impact.  Kids?  Those can be called Antifa crisis actors and dismissed.

[kallend 1,819]

Everything is to blame except the elephant in the room:

https://www.vox.com/2019/8/4/20753725/el-paso-dayton-shootings-video-games-gop-mccarthy

As if they don't have video games in western Europe or Australia.  Or gangs.  Or immigrants, minorities, or poor people.

[kallend 1,819]

Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl said six officers responded to the shooting.

Biehl said the officers engaged the shooter and within 20 seconds of hearing gunfire, police officers engaged with the suspect. Biehl said the threat was neutralized within 30 seconds of the suspect beginning to fire shots. 

 

So in just 30 seconds Betts, who had a high capacity magazine, managed to kill 9 people and injure 22 more.

Somehow I doubt the founding fathers were thinking of this capability when they wrote the 2nd Amendment.

Nor would a knife attack achieve anything like such mayhem in 30 seconds despite NRA's silly claims.

[BIGUN 1,229]

5 hours ago, yoink said:

Any solution will take centuries to fully enact and guns that already in circulation to be lost or destroyed.

 

At this point all I’d like to see is a general bipartisan agreement that there is a problem that’s unique to the US.

I submitted a proposal of solutions for consideration based on several of those other countries including the Canadian model. Additional steps to remove the existing guns, etc.

All the liberals with the exception of TKH POOPOO'D IT. They don't want a solution. They just want to complain every time it happens and point at the GOP.

[JoeWeber 2,535]

45 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I submitted a proposal of solutions for consideration based on several of those other countries including the Canadian model. Additional steps to remove the existing guns, etc.

All the liberals with the exception of TKH POOPOO'D IT. They don't want a solution. They just want to complain every time it happens and point at the GOP.

Did I poo-poo it? Or am I just a damn liberal poseur.

[neilmck 36]

Not correct.

Edited August 5, 2019 by neilmck

[nigel99 280]

Trump has said shootings need to stop. Considering his typical knee jerk reactions to problems, I would find it amusing if Trump was the President that by Executive Order enacted a strict gun law.

Note: I doubt he will do anything and give it a week or two and the shooters may well be ‘very fine people, who...’

[Erroll 74]

1 hour ago, neilmck said:

Am l the only person who heard Donald Trump refer to the killers as, "brilliant people" ?

As much as I loathe the way Trump conducts himself, I doubt very much that you have any evidence of that.

Trolling is not adding anything useful to the discussion.

[neilmck 36]

51 minutes ago, Erroll said:

1 hour ago, neilmck said:

Am l the only person who heard Donald Trump refer to the killers as, "brilliant people" ?

As much as I loathe the way Trump conducts himself, I doubt very much that you have any evidence of that.

You are right, I didn't hear him correctly, I did find it hard to believe I was they only one who picked up on it. Earlier I listened several times to what he said and I was sure he said this.  However now just before posting the link I listened again and he never said it, I can only put it down to me misunderstanding the American accent.

I apologize for saying this about Donald Trump.  Also I can assure you it was not my intention to troll.

[ScottishJohn 25]

Words are cheap.

"This American carnage stops right here and stops right now"  Donald Trump 20 Jan 2017

[Erroll 74]

5 hours ago, neilmck said:

I can only put it down to me misunderstanding the American accent.