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nigel99

Go back to where you came from

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3 hours ago, Rick said:

you can say that as many times as you want but controlling costs stands alone for whatever reason you are doing it. 

controlling spending should be a motivator whether it is to increase your bottom line or save the tax payers money

It is very fortunate that we didn't have that attitude during World War II, the Manhattan project or the Apollo program.  

Public programs work differently than private companies.

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“Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came,”

Firstly, I wanna say I’m way outta my lane commenting here.... as I tend to avoid political discussions.  But my take on this topic is this..... If you look at what was actually said, I don’t believe it qualifies as racism.  Depending on how someone feels about Trump, Republicans, or Conservatives... it can be inferred that is was meant with racial undertones..... this is the angle the media immediately pushes by cropping his words to “ Go back to where you came from!”

If you take his words at face value, to me, it comes across as “ Instead of disparaging the work I’ve done on a national level , you should do a better job in the districts in which you were appointed.”  

Maybe his intent was to be underhandedly racist, but I try not to buy into that mindset.  It also could be that I’m so tired of hearing about racism, that I’ve tuned it out.  To be sure, racism in America is alive and well.... and it will be for quite some time.  But, it’ll never fade away if it’s at the forefront of every discussion.  

I’m not saying racism should be a none issue, just that we need to leave it behind to reach a middle ground beyond it.  

 

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58 minutes ago, Highradwarrior said:

“Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came,”

Firstly, I wanna say I’m way outta my lane commenting here.... as I tend to avoid political discussions.  But my take on this topic is this..... If you look at what was actually said, I don’t believe it qualifies as racism.  Depending on how someone feels about Trump, Republicans, or Conservatives... it can be inferred that is was meant with racial undertones..... this is the angle the media immediately pushes by cropping his words to “ Go back to where you came from!”

If you take his words at face value, to me, it comes across as “ Instead of disparaging the work I’ve done on a national level , you should do a better job in the districts in which you were appointed.”  

Maybe his intent was to be underhandedly racist, but I try not to buy into that mindset.  It also could be that I’m so tired of hearing about racism, that I’ve tuned it out.  To be sure, racism in America is alive and well.... and it will be for quite some time.  But, it’ll never fade away if it’s at the forefront of every discussion.  

I’m not saying racism should be a none issue, just that we need to leave it behind to reach a middle ground beyond it.  

 

So interesting to see 'Progressive' Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run.

 

So...I disagree.  This is the whole proclamation; no edits (besides the bold, underline, and italics).  Three of the four originally came from right here in the USA.  This is absolute racism, as defined in Federal law right here in the USA.

From the EEOC.gov website:

Harassment Based on National Origin

  • Ethnic slurs and other verbal or physical conduct because of nationality are illegal if they are severe or pervasive and create an intimidating, hostile or offensive working environment, interfere with work performance, or negatively affect job opportunities. Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person's foreign accent or comments like, "Go back to where you came from, " whether made by supervisors or by co-workers.

 

There's just no way to justify it...

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3 hours ago, billvon said:

It is very fortunate that we didn't have that attitude during World War II, the Manhattan project or the Apollo program.  

You might want to re-check that. The only way was to generate revenue for those government agencies during those time frames was to increase taxes. It's not about earning your revenue - the Dems just add another tax without realizing that not controlling costs leads to a spend it or lose it mentality. Those of us in the military saw it first hand - We had to burn up our budget by October 1st or lose funding for the next year. Rick is right and/or I'll stand by his comments - nobody in a government role knows shit about controlling costs - if they did we wouldn't have an incremental budget process.     

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46 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

You might want to re-check that. The only way was to generate revenue for those government agencies during those time frames was to increase taxes. It's not about earning your revenue - the Dems just add another tax without realizing that not controlling costs leads to a spend it or lose it mentality. Those of us in the military saw it first hand - We had to burn up our budget by October 1st or lose funding for the next year. Rick is right and/or I'll stand by his comments - nobody in a government role knows shit about controlling costs - if they did we wouldn't have an incremental budget process.     

Yuuuup, can't agree strongly enough with that.  That's why I'm in favor of slashing the shit out of the defense budget.  Conservative talking heads like to accuse people of wanting to "take body armor away from Marines," when in reality those of us who have served for any appreciable time can list at least 50 examples off the top of our heads of MASSIVE waste of government funds.

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(edited)

Huh, I stand corrected... Never saw the whole “proclamation”!  Like I said, I don’t follow politics closely.  My impression was based on the one quote, and I myself had it out of context.  Probably should’ve done some more reading before commenting, lol.

Edited by Highradwarrior
Spelling

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18 hours ago, Highradwarrior said:

If you take his words at face value, to me, it comes across as “ Instead of disparaging the work I’ve done on a national level , you should do a better job in the districts in which you were appointed.”  

Jesus dude, don’t be so damn lazy. Could you not be bothered to read more than one paragraph of what he said?

 

Trump specifically talked about those women coming from other countries with corrupt governments. If you take his words  at face value he absolutely positively was not saying they should do a better job in the districts they were appointed in. At face value he was saying they should go back and fix the countries he erroneously assumes they came from, an assumption he made purely because they’re not white and he’s a racist.

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(edited)

Yeah, like I said.... I was wrong, as the person above kindly informed me already.   Only saw and read, the one article that came up on my news feed.  That article only had the one quote, and I was under the impression he knew they came from this country.  I FUCKED UP!!!.... No reason to get butthurt over my obviously flawed opinion.  And yes, I can be extremely lazy, lol... but I also work 80+ hour weeks, so I choose to spend what little free time I do have not getting wrapped up with the hysterical left/right politics that has everyone frothing at the mouth these days.  So sorry I offended you... please don't sue me!xD

Edited by Highradwarrior
Cause I'm uninformed and lazy

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37 minutes ago, Highradwarrior said:

Only saw and read, the one article that came up on my news feed.  That article only had the one quote, 

Right, so you read one article and one quote, and from that decided to proclaim that the media was at fault for pushing their agenda instead of honestly reporting what Trump said, and that anti-racists are to blame for perpetuating racism. So now you realise you fucked up, does it change your opinion of the media too? Because they were being honest. Does it change your opinion of the people pointing out racism every day? Because it does still exist even in the White House.

 

By the way, what is the middle ground beyond racism? How do you propose meeting the racists halfway? When the President is out there being so racist it draws glowing praise from prominent white nationalist leaders should we still be ignoring that so as not to be too divisive?

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I acknowledged in 2 separate post, that I was wrong for not reading into it more.  I'll repeat it again in case you're unfamiliar with someone admitting fault on the internet/ or if you need to stroke your ego... I was wrong for not reading into it more.  To answer your questions...

1) Yes/No

2) No

3) No

Middle ground beyond racism would be people putting their differences aside, and moving forward together.  That'll never happen will the SJW's and Right Extremists stirring the pot.

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1 hour ago, Highradwarrior said:

I acknowledged in 2 separate post, that I was wrong for not reading into it more.  I'll repeat it again in case you're unfamiliar with someone admitting fault on the internet/ or if you need to stroke your ego... I was wrong for not reading into it more.  To answer your questions...

1) Yes/No

2) No

3) No

Middle ground beyond racism would be people putting their differences aside, and moving forward together.  That'll never happen will the SJW's and Right Extremists stirring the pot.

Hey man,

That's more than enough. You screwed the pooch and owned up to it in capital letters. Now let's move on.

Joe

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4 hours ago, Highradwarrior said:

Middle ground beyond racism would be people putting their differences aside, and moving forward together.  That'll never happen will the SJW's and Right Extremists stirring the pot.

Again, why are you blaming SJWs for people being racist? How exactly is it the liberals' fault that Trump is saying racist stuff on Twitter?

 

When in the history of the country has racism majorly declined because everyone else shut up and let the racists figure out their mistakes on their own? Was it Martin Luther King's famous 'I have nothing to say' speech?

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47 minutes ago, mistercwood said:

Dude can you cool it a bit? The new guy's got some ground to make up, but he's already completely owned his mistake and appears open to more progress. You're coming off as way too aggressive...

He's owned his mistake regrds to Trump, but the underlying stance he was using his version of the Trump incident to justify remains exactly the same. 

 

Frankly, between not being aware of everything Trump said and thinking that the world can move past racism if we all just keep our heads down and be quiet when racist people do racist things, I think the second one is a much bigger mistake.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, jakee said:

He's owned his mistake regrds to Trump, but the underlying stance he was using his version of the Trump incident to justify remains exactly the same. 

 

Frankly, between not being aware of everything Trump said and thinking that the world can move past racism if we all just keep our heads down and be quiet when racist people do racist things, I think the second one is a much bigger mistake.

Yeah, I’ve sat on the edge with this. Bonus points for admitting a mistake. But I tend to agree, the underlying belief system is regardless of Trump or not. 

Besides Trump appears to be embracing his racism, so it looks like 2020 may well bring race to the front and centre of the US elections. I remember when Obama was first elected the jokes floating around about how a black president doesn’t even know how to pee without a TelePrompTer. So it’s always been there, just Trump is gong to make it acceptable 

Edited by nigel99

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New to this forum, and haven’t jumped in a while, but I’ve been on this site for a few years.  Tough crowd.... I honesty would like to respond to most of that, but there’s more to cover than I feel like typing.  What’s a more consice version of your main issue with my stance?  Everyone is offended by everything, and as someone who tries to take a reasonable, logical approach to life in general.... it’s frustrating to see everyone losing their minds over inconsequential shit.  This is the reason why I tried to be impartial with what “I thought” Trump said.  To be clear, racism is fucking dumb... but people still have that mentality.   If someone is too narrow minded to judge a person by the color of a person skin, instead of the character in their heart... they’re probably too narrow minded to change their ways.      It’s my “opinion” that by keeping the issue relevant, it only emboldens them to continue being racist.  I’d like to believe most people aren’t narrow minded, and those that are, will fade away eventually.

 

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Some people are only satisfied if you not only capitulate completely, but tell them they were right AND YOU WERE WRONG all along. You can only please them by making yourself into something else. 

So inform yourself, respect others’ rights to their opinions, and be yourself. Not everyone will like you, tough shit. But there are plenty of people who disagree on pieces of things; you decide what you agree and don’t let someone else tell you it means you agree with everything. 

Donald Trump and I both breathe. That doesn’t mean we agree on everything. I’m definitely more liberal than conservative, but I’m not against guns. Etc. 

please stay; we need fresh blood sometimes. 

Wendy P. 

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2 hours ago, Highradwarrior said:

What’s a more consice version of your main issue with my stance?  

How much more concise do you need it? Racism hasn't ever gone away simply through being ignored, it has retreated when it has been forced to through confrontation.

 

Quote

Everyone is offended by everything, and as someone who tries to take a reasonable, logical approach to life in general.... it’s frustrating to see everyone losing their minds over inconsequential shit.  

Do you think being on the receiving end of overt racism is inconsequential?

 

Quote

This is the reason why I tried to be impartial with what “I thought” Trump said.  

Impartial with regards to what? I don't really see how that's relevant here.

 

Quote

If someone is too narrow minded to judge a person by the color of a person skin, instead of the character in their heart... they’re probably too narrow minded to change their ways.      It’s my “opinion” that by keeping the issue relevant, it only emboldens them to continue being racist.  

But that's rubbish, isn't it? And to be frank, a very small step away from victim blaming. White supremacist organisations have sophisticated and beguiling propaganda operations. They're vocal in their views and active in recruitment. People saying racism is bad doesn't embolden the racists - their racist mates telling how right they are to be racist is what emboldens them. The President being overtly racist on Twitter and TV emboldens them. Being able to hold their stupid parades and demonstrations with their Nazi friends without anyone else turning up to counter them would embolden them. Those are the problems. People who point out that racism is bad are not the problem.

 

Quote

To be clear, racism is fucking dumb

Why do you want racists to be emboldened?

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Trump is a proven racist  (in addition to being a proven liar, fraud and sexual predator) and he deliberately appeals to the worst and most ignorant impulses in the American voter.  The great shame is that his racist "base" is such a large percentage of the population and that there are others, who while they may not be racist themselves, manage turn a blind eye to his racism for other reasons of self-interest.  Rather like supporting Hitler because they liked driving on  the autobahns.

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9 hours ago, Highradwarrior said:

New to this forum, and haven’t jumped in a while, but I’ve been on this site for a few years.  Tough crowd.... I honesty would like to respond to most of that, but there’s more to cover than I feel like typing.  What’s a more consice version of your main issue with my stance?  Everyone is offended by everything, and as someone who tries to take a reasonable, logical approach to life in general.... it’s frustrating to see everyone losing their minds over inconsequential shit.  This is the reason why I tried to be impartial with what “I thought” Trump said.  To be clear, racism is fucking dumb... but people still have that mentality.   If someone is too narrow minded to judge a person by the color of a person skin, instead of the character in their heart... they’re probably too narrow minded to change their ways.      It’s my “opinion” that by keeping the issue relevant, it only emboldens them to continue being racist.  I’d like to believe most people aren’t narrow minded, and those that are, will fade away eventually.

 

Concise version? 

Easy. The way you rationalize and justify and minimize Trump's racism.

Mexicans are rapists
Muslims are terrorists.
African countries are "Shitholes", while Norway is "nice."

Nazis and KKK are 'very fine people'.
Four women with dark skin should "go back where they came from". All are citizens and three were born here, same as Trump.
Today, a black congressman from Baltimore is responsible for the faults of the city. The same way John Lewis of Atlanta was responsible for the hugely exaggerated problems there. Why aren't any white congress creatures responsible for the problems in their districts?

It's not 'underlying' racism or a 'racist undercurrent'. 
It's his entire platform. 
The people who overtly support it are bad. But at least they have the courage of their convictions to stand up and say that they hate blacks, Muslims, Mexicans, ect.

Like at the rally last week where they shouted "Send her back!!!"

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fascist-trump-rally-greenville-ilhan-omar-send-her-back_n_5d30529fe4b0419fd328b270?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&section=politics&utm_source=main_fb&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0e7J6riCplwtbKDCuuj7nbmzNpRBDsacjbVldMgk-Dr50GKrYyPrpv1gs

The ones who support Trump, but refuse to admit his racism are somehow worse. They hide their racism behind rationalization and justifications. Like 'I'm tired of hearing it' or 'keeping it in everyone's face emboldens the racists'.

It's supporting and enabling the racists and racism without taking ANY ownership of it.

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8 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Some people are only satisfied if you not only capitulate completely, but tell them they were right AND YOU WERE WRONG all along. You can only please them by making yourself into something else. 

But if he turned himself into someone who didn't blame anti-racism protestors for the behaviour of racists, wouldn't he be better for it? I thought you should encourage that sort of personal growth in people, not warn them off it.

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(edited)
5 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Concise version? 

Easy. The way you rationalize and justify and minimize Trump's racism.

Mexicans are rapists
Muslims are terrorists.
African countries are "Shitholes", while Norway is "nice."

Nazis and KKK are 'very fine people'.
Four women with dark skin should "go back where they came from". All are citizens and three were born here, same as Trump.
Today, a black congressman from Baltimore is responsible for the faults of the city. The same way John Lewis of Atlanta was responsible for the hugely exaggerated problems there. Why aren't any white congress creatures responsible for the problems in their districts?

It's not 'underlying' racism or a 'racist undercurrent'. 
It's his entire platform. 
The people who overtly support it are bad. But at least they have the courage of their convictions to stand up and say that they hate blacks, Muslims, Mexicans, ect.

Like at the rally last week where they shouted "Send her back!!!"

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fascist-trump-rally-greenville-ilhan-omar-send-her-back_n_5d30529fe4b0419fd328b270?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063&section=politics&utm_source=main_fb&utm_campaign=hp_fb_pages&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0e7J6riCplwtbKDCuuj7nbmzNpRBDsacjbVldMgk-Dr50GKrYyPrpv1gs

The ones who support Trump, but refuse to admit his racism are somehow worse. They hide their racism behind rationalization and justifications. Like 'I'm tired of hearing it' or 'keeping it in everyone's face emboldens the racists'.

It's supporting and enabling the racists and racism without taking ANY ownership of it.

Exactly, I approve of this post!!!!!!! (But not on behalf of all Canadians)

Edited by gowlerk
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