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nigel99

Go back to where you came from

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1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

Perhaps it was a different time frame. But, there have always been groups of individuals that distinguish themselves by their ethnolinguistic uniqueness. Sharing a common self-identity. We see it among ethnic groups today. Calling themselves by their racial slur. People cringe. With inside a very close group; it was (or perhaps is) common to call each other using a (now) ethnic slur. 

Inside a very close group. Can you hear yourself talk? Can you apply the logic that we all know you possess to the words you are saying?

 

Trump is not part of The Squad's group. He is not one of them. He is not friends with them. He is not among their ethnic group. He does not like them. He wants to insult them. He wants to tear them down. He told them to go back to where they came from. If a white guy who does not like a group of coloured people calls them niggers he is being racist, no matter whether they are happy to call each other niggers. 

 

This is the same thing. Your own words and arguments are proving that, by your unbiased standards, Trump was being racist. Open your eyes.

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30 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Let's stop and pause. I know you hate Trump, but that is completely out of context. It's not like it was spontaneous combustion in a rant. He was baited by a member of the media to say it. He said it and then said he didn't know anything about it. Let's review the actual moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKkDv0cFma4

 

  

 

31 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Let's stop and pause. I know you hate Trump, but that is completely out of context. It's not like it was spontaneous combustion in a rant. He was baited by a member of the media to say it. He said it and then said he didn't know anything about it. Let's review the actual moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKkDv0cFma4

 

  

John Mc Cain wss baited by members of the public at a rally when they said that Obama was an Arab.

John Mc Cain didnt start chanting 'Send him home' he stood up for Obama and explained that he was a decent man who had different political ideas.

People bending over backwards to defend Trump are tarring themselves with the same brush that Trump has used to tar himself. 

 

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7 minutes ago, billvon said:

But not even the craziest Trump supporter is going to be able to turn "the fact that she was married to her brother" and "I hear she was married to her brother" into "he didn't say that" without a very serious case of cognitive dissonance.

Sorry for the delay. I had to fact check it and you're right. It was Emerald Robinson. And, you're also right that sometimes it gets hard to defend some one or thing when they're stepping on their dicks. I'm scratching my head wondering what in the fuck was she thinking. The other day, I was angry at the liberals. In the last five minutes; I got angry at the conservatives.  

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1 hour ago, BIGUN said:

I don't think there's anyone on here that doesn't know the definition. But, you seem to sidestep that he was baited by a member of the media, paused and thought about it for second before answering - yet no one seems to care about how the discussion arose.  

That’s the thing with being a manager, leader, teacher or any person of authority, you are not allowed to take the bait and act stupid, doing so is a core part of your job. CEO’s lose their jobs all the time for mis speaking to the media, shareholders and clients.

As president that responsibility is even greater! Why did we start a war with Canada well you know old Justin baited Trump and he just reacted...

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11 hours ago, billvon said:

Trump's latest attack on Omar: "I hear she was married to her brother."

I wonder what will be next?  Trump heard she tried to marry a white man?  Or perhaps that he heard that a politician married a woman to get her citizenship, then bring her whole family in - and then gave her a job as a political leader.  That would be most foul.

That's standard TRUMP style.

"I hear that <insert vulgarity/insult/racist or sexist comment here>"

"People are saying <<insert vulgarity/insult/racist or sexist comment here>"

Which plants the idea in his idiot base while allowing him room for denial that HE holds such a view if the feedback is negative.

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13 hours ago, nigel99 said:

That’s the thing with being a manager, leader, teacher or any person of authority, you are not allowed to take the bait and act stupid,

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I don't even think he needs to be baited anymore. He is always on the attack and his attacks are childish and racist. 

I wanted to see a change in the government. I thought maybe a political outsider might be a better option.

I was wrong and I am embarrassed by the things he says. 

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1 hour ago, Rick said:

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I don't even think he needs to be baited anymore. He is always on the attack and his attacks are childish and racist. 

I wanted to see a change in the government. I thought maybe a political outsider might be a better option.

I was wrong and I am embarrassed by the things he says. 

Exactly what change in government were you hoping for? I've heard that a lot but I'm not sure anyone has really thrown out a list of specifics along with the statement.

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1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Exactly what change in government were you hoping for?

I see so much waste of time/money with our government. I thought perhaps someone from the business sector may be able to get some of that under control.  

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3 minutes ago, Rick said:

I see so much waste of time/money with our government. I thought perhaps someone from the business sector may be able to get some of that under control.  

Well, a successful businessman, perhaps, e.g. Bloomberg, Bezos, Buffett, 

But a "businessman" who inherited Daddy's money, and then proceeded to go bankrupt so often that the only things left he could do was license his name to other businesses, and host a reality show? No.

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1 minute ago, ryoder said:

Well, a successful businessman, perhaps, e.g. Bloomberg, Bezos, Buffett, 

But a "businessman" who inherited Daddy's money, and then proceeded to go bankrupt so often that the only things left he could do was license his name to other businesses, and host a reality show? No.

well I did say I was wrong but that was my thinking at the time.

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10 minutes ago, Rick said:

I see so much waste of time/money with our government. I thought perhaps someone from the business sector may be able to get some of that under control.  

Rick, thank you. But that's seriously non-specific. Truly the most money government wastes is military and I never hear the right saying cut there. The reality is that the waste of time/money trope, for most people, is just a gut feeling or something they bought on TV.

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(edited)
30 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Rick, thank you. But that's seriously non-specific. Truly the most money government wastes is military and I never hear the right saying cut there. The reality is that the waste of time/money trope, for most people, is just a gut feeling or something they bought on TV.

a couple of examples: I saw how screwed up the VA was. I was not happy with everyone being forced to purchase health care from private companies or be fined for it. 

I thought someone who was not a career politician might be able to come up with better ways to do things or surround themselves with people that could find ways to use our tax money more efficiently.  (edited to add) and yes even the money spent on the military

Edited by Rick

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Trump really is a lying POS.

He's trying to walk back his comments and behavior at the recent rally (pertaining to the four congresswomen) despite what the video of him very clearly shows.

His contempt for the truth is matched only by his contempt for the intelligence of his loyal base.

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45 minutes ago, Rick said:

a couple of examples: I saw how screwed up the VA was. I was not happy with everyone being forced to purchase health care from private companies or be fined for it. 

I thought someone who was not a career politician might be able to come up with better ways to do things or surround themselves with people that could find ways to use our tax money more efficiently.  (edited to add) and yes even the money spent on the military

A lot of the headwinds faced by the ACA were republican induced. The GOP didn't like it so they fought to eviscerate it at the state and federal level. So how it might have worked with bi-partisan support will never be known. In any case The VA isn't a private insurance situation so you're mixing apples and oranges. 

You say "not a career politician" but you mean businessman. Fine but, for Christs sake, Trumps defects were apparent to anyone who took a glance. I'm not saying you, but there is this attitude some people have that pisses me off the most: the light was getting brighter, the noise was getting louder, I heard Toot-Toot and there were railroad tracks left and right. How was I supposed to know a train was coming? F'n really?

He was that obvious and it was also obvious that more bad was coming. I mean it when I say that no one who truly loves this country should be proud of a vote for Trump.

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29 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

A lot of the headwinds faced by the ACA were republican induced. The GOP didn't like it so they fought to eviscerate it at the state and federal level. So how it might have worked with bi-partisan support will never be known. In any case The VA isn't a private insurance situation so you're mixing apples and oranges. 

You say "not a career politician" but you mean businessman. Fine but, for Christs sake, Trumps defects were apparent to anyone who took a glance. I'm not saying you, but there is this attitude some people have that pisses me off the most: the light was getting brighter, the noise was getting louder, I heard Toot-Toot and there were railroad tracks left and right. How was I supposed to know a train was coming? F'n really?

He was that obvious and it was also obvious that more bad was coming. I mean it when I say that no one who truly loves this country should be proud of a vote for Trump.

I wasn't mixing anything. 2 different issues.

It's not your place to tell me what I meant.

You can berate me all you want but my reasons are mine alone and I own them.

If it makes you feel better tell me how stupid I am then carry on.

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THIS is why we have divided ourselves.

Rick and I have a personal experience with wildly opposing views on a few issues, yet we haven't (Yet!) divided our friendship.

It's interesting to realize you can actually be friends with, support their right to chose, and still disagree with people unlike yourself. It's actually pretty informative to consider opposing stances, perspectives, experiences, and views on most topics/issues.

Attacking people for having their own views on issues is anti-American IMO.

We're all free to vote who and how we want.

I still cannot understand the near violent approach we have to differing views.

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55 minutes ago, Rick said:

I wasn't mixing anything. 2 different issues.

It's not your place to tell me what I meant.

You can berate me all you want but my reasons are mine alone and I own them.

If it makes you feel better tell me how stupid I am then carry on.

Rick,

I respect that you can admit you were wrong about Trump, that you are also embarrassed by what he say's and that you own it. I thought that by stating 'I'm not saying you" I would get there. I did not. For that I apologize. 

Joe

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4 hours ago, Rick said:

I thought someone who was not a career politician might be able to come up with better ways to do things or surround themselves with people that could find ways to use our tax money more efficiently.  (edited to add) and yes even the money spent on the military

I've seen that sentiment a lot and I used to share it.  Now I don't.  (Long before Trump.)  

Consider the case of a DZ trying to hire a new pilot after they had a scary almost-crash with their Otter.  They look at several experienced commercial pilots - some with military experience, some with freight experience, some with thousands of hours of CFI time.  Should they hire one of those guys, or hire the guy who runs the local liquor store and isn't a career pilot?  After all, the liquor store owner will approach it with a new mindset and apply some "out of the box" thinking.  And he had to run his own business, so he has real-world business experience instead of simulated flight time and socialist military experience, where you get paid no matter how bad you are.  And the last pilot had commercial and multiengine ratings - and look how THAT turned out!

Most DZO's (and pilots, and skydivers) would hear that and say "WTF!  You hire a guy with experience if you want your airplane flown well and your DZ to succeed."  Politicians are no different.  Some are good, some are bad - but they all have experience in managing governments.  And a good politician with experience managing a government will do a better job than a reality TV star and real estate guy with half a dozen bankruptcies to his name.

The big difference between pilots and politicians is that pilots usually don't have fully half the country dedicated to finding fault with them.

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4 hours ago, Rick said:

You can berate me all you want but my reasons are mine alone and I own them.

There were a LOT of Americans who felt Trump was a better option than Clinton. Not a majority, but a lot. It is common for people to dislike politicians as a group, and she was among the most disliked. Personally I feel this is both unfair and unwise. Politicians put themselves forward for different combinations of reasons. Some noble and some not. Clinton was mostly, but not completely noble. Trump's are and were almost completely ignoble, but as a wise American once said, "you can fool some of the people all of the time". Trump is a master at fooling people.

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4 hours ago, normiss said:

THIS is why we have divided ourselves.

Rick and I have a personal experience with wildly opposing views on a few issues, yet we haven't (Yet!) divided our friendship.

It's interesting to realize you can actually be friends with, support their right to chose, and still disagree with people unlike yourself. It's actually pretty informative to consider opposing stances, perspectives, experiences, and views on most topics/issues.

Attacking people for having their own views on issues is anti-American IMO.

We're all free to vote who and how we want.

I still cannot understand the near violent approach we have to differing views.

Welcome to internet relationships, where nuance becomes contradiction, and contradiction becomes a reason for enmity and attack. 

It’s nice to have the time to compose my thoughts and pick my words, but what’s lost in actual relationships might well not be a fair trade  

Wendy P. 

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6 hours ago, Rick said:

well I did say I was wrong but that was my thinking at the time.

I think there are a considerable number of people in your position. My dad has a saying that the first requirement for being in politics should be that you don’t want to be in politics.

Modern democracy and western culture needs a revolution to turn around the direction we are all going. The fact that politicians know that their ‘base’ gets mobilised to vote and generally only passionate and committed people go out and vote tends to bias everything towards extreme views. In Australia voting is compulsory and citizens get fined for not voting. I think that approach helps to moderate extremism, not that I’m holding Australian politics up as a good example!

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5 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Rick,

I respect that you can admit you were wrong about Trump, that you are also embarrassed by what he say's and that you own it. I thought that by stating 'I'm not saying you" I would get there. I did not. For that I apologize. 

Joe

sorry Joe I need to work on developing a thicker skin and not take things so personal.

Bill I see where you are coming from now. I have tried recently to be more active on here so I can tell all you where I am coming from, and to try to understand other view points. For instance I have changed my position on the death penalty by reading what people on this forum have to say.

Mark I hope that (yet) doesn't mean you are going to stop being my friend. :).

Gowlerk I think the first thing that turned me away from Hillary is that we elected Bill. But it seemed that she immediately became a force in politics. Most other first ladies had there causes that they championed but it seemed she had more power than deserved. The 2 of them have made a good living out of being politicians and for some reason (I think Nigel hit on it) it turned me off that she took the power and ran with it and I did not see her doing it because she had the best interest of the country. I think she is mostly self serving. 

Having said that I can see how the media and not getting out of your bubble of friends that hold a certain opinion could cloud ones judgement .

I hope this makes sense to you all. It would be so much easier if we were sitting in a bar over a beer and having this discussion. 

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