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Sylvie

AFF training in Canada - Quebec

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Hello

I made a first jump in tandem and I'm thinking of starting my AFF training which is called PAC training in Quebec where I live. I am surprised to note that in Quebec, unlike in the United States or France, only the first jump is done with 2 instructors. The next three jumps are supervised by one instructor. Does this program seem safe to you?

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I would say it depends on the rest of the training program.

Do they have you do more tandems before your first AFF jump? Do they have you do tunnel time?
My current DZ does a program that has 2 tandems (after the first jump class) with tasks that must be accomplished & objectives met. Then 10 min in the tunnel. If all goes well, the first AFF jump is one instructor. If the TI or tunnel instructor isn't confident that the student will do well with one instructor, they have the option of doing the first jump with two.

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All the DZ in Quebec will send you to SkyVenture Montreal for 15-20min (time is dependent on DZ) of tunnel after ground school and 3-4 days prior to your first jump. You will be rated at the tunnel to either let you move forward for your first jump or they may ask you to take more coaching in the tunnel. Usually as soon as you can arch in the tunnel you will move forward.

Your first jump with 2 instructors is to get the sensory overload out of the way. In freefall you revert very easily to the position you learned in the tunnel. Here again will be a pass or fail depending on the instructor. You will get a full debrief after every jump. 

At my DZ there are around 100 PAC done every summer and the students obtaining their Solo license usually have a very good base to continue on toward their A license.

My biggest recommendation is to choose the right DZ for you and not necessarily the closest one.

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(edited)

So the French term is PAC while the English term is PFF in the CSPA system.  PFF and AFF are pretty similar in a general sense.

(There are also USPA affiliated DZ's in Canada who will offer the US-style AFF. Perhaps none in Quebec but I'm not sure. The CSPA system works easier there because documents are available in both languages.)

Normally PFF in the Canadian system uses 3 jumps that are 2:1. The approved Tunnel variation of that is to do tunnel first, then one 2:1 jump. 

So that all is in accordance with what you heard about learning to skydive in Quebec. Plenty of good, professional DZ's in Quebec.

 

Edited by pchapman
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Accelerated Free Fall in the USA.

Progression Accelere’ en Chute Libre = progression accelerated in free fall.

Some Quebec DZs called it Accompanied Freefall ... which made the most sense to me.

Progressive Freefall in most of Canada

All similar programs and all tailored to how fast the student learns.

I have done hundreds of PFF jumps as a reserve-side instructor (aka training wheel) where my primary task was holding the student stable until they recovered from sensory over-load ... usually 5 seconds after exit.

As soon as they announced a (portable) wind tunnel was coming to Vancouver, I refused to do PFF jumps with students before they had a few minutes of tunnel time.

Which brings us back to the OP’s question ..... one-on-one PFF/AFF/PAC etc. is fine as long as the student already has some experience in a wind tunnel. After that, the quality of the student is the biggest variable ... followed by the quality of instructor(s).

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9 hours ago, Sylvie said:

Hello

I made a first jump in tandem and I'm thinking of starting my AFF training which is called PAC training in Quebec where I live. I am surprised to note that in Quebec, unlike in the United States or France, only the first jump is done with 2 instructors. The next three jumps are supervised by one instructor. Does this program seem safe to you?

 

9 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Do they have you do more tandems before your first AFF jump? Do they have you do tunnel time?

Yes all programs count 15-20 minutes in the wind tunnel.

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1 hour ago, riggerrob said:

Which brings us back to the OP’s question ..... one-on-one PFF/AFF/PAC etc. is fine as long as the student already has some experience in a wind tunnel. After that, the quality of the student is the biggest variable ... followed by the quality of instructor(s).

I thought about going to the wind tunnel on my own before even starting my training. To see how I manage and feel.

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I did my PAC aka AFF/PFF in Gatineau (Quebec) at GO Skydive last year, it was the same format as what you mentioned, it was safe and they made sure safety was always number 1.
 

At GO they gave me the choice of doing the hybrid (tunnel and then one 2:1 jump) or doing it like you say in France, i went with the tunnel and i had no regrets. I think its a great idea as you will experience what free fall feels like (on your own) before even jumping as a student, which is great help.

Bonne chance

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(edited)
On 7/12/2019 at 6:01 PM, Sylvie said:

I live in Montreal. Do you have a DZ to suggest me ?

All operations around Montréal are very safety oriented but the vibe will change from DZ to DZ. My reply will be a little biased since I really like my DZ. My intention is not to start a DZ war just my personal impressions. I would also love to ear from people that jump at those DZ. I'm on the south shore of Montreal and Jump at Voltige:

Voltige: 2 planes, 1 Caravan and 1 Twin Otter. The Caravan is usually the fun jumper load but the Twin usually go up with 6-8 fun jumpers on every load. Yesterday we had 32-33 loads during the day. Very laid back vibe, most fun jumpers are aged 25-40 but we have lots of fun with old timers too. As I said, we have around 100 PFF/PAC every summer.

Parachute Montréal, St-Esprit: there has been a massive fun jumper exodus the last 2 years to Voltige because they are focussing more on tandem now. Fun jumpers are having a harder time getting on loads.

Parachute Montréal, Farnham: Very similar to Voltige in the operation but the vibe is very different. Stories from people going there is that the vibe is very serious, I want to say military but it's too strong a word. I don't know how to describe it.

Adrénaline in St-Jérôme has a very tight landing area and not many outs if you're ever not going to make it back. They also teach different pattern altitude compare to Flight 1 classes because they want to make sure you land on grass and not trees.

Go Skydive, Gatineau: Nabz would be better than me to explain the DZ but lots of my friends go to Go Skydive for Springfest and other events and the vibe + installation seems to be very similar to Voltige.

Another aspect is the discipline you'll want to focus toward after completing your license. Some DZ have a lot of people doing different things and other DZ are more focus toward 1 or 2. This will evolve over time for you and you'll try different things and you'll seek coaching for those new disciplines and friends to practice.

These are pretty much your choices around Montréal. As I said it depends on what vibe you're looking for since skydiving is talking to people on the ground 3/4 of the time.

Blue skies

Edited by tabouare
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28 minutes ago, tabouare said:

 

Go Skydive, Gatineau: Nabz would be better than me to explain the DZ but lots of my friends go to Go Skydive for Springfest and other events and the vibe + installation seems to be very similar to Voltige.

 

GO Skydive is as you mentioned similar to the vibe at Voltige, lots of fun jumpers all kinds of skill levels. We have a lot of free flyers, not many belly but we all get along.

The people here, all the way from the DZOs to the Manifest are amazing people, always willing to help and very friendly. Fun Jumpers/Students/Coaches all are fun to be around.

I would suggest going to the DZs around you so you get a feel for how it is there, as you will be spending alot of time there.

 

Tabouare, i am due to go to Voltige sometime in August, ill message you on here before I come and say Hi

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I did my AFF in France (Mimizan) with a Dutch skydive instructor. The first jump was with 2 instructors, the other 5 with just one. No tunnel before. I had no stability issues so all went fine.
If I had done my AFF here in BE then it would be the first 3 jumps with 2 instructors.

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