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raphaelistics

4-way exit FAIL - skydiver loses shoe

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11 hours ago, billvon said:

I would add that sometimes it's not the person who does something stupid who gets hurt.  I've had two good friends killed by other skydivers "just having fun."  And in both cases it wasn't something new - these are people that had been talked to several times about the same problem that led to them killing other skydivers, and always answered along the lines of "geez, no one got hurt, what the fuck is your problem?"

Can you shortly elaborate that? I'm just thinking what can happen multiple times and people are considering that it is not dangerous ("geez, no one got hurt") and then it kills two people?! Normally after something went wrong the majority of people recognizes that this was a bit dangerous and will speak to the other people and maybe they will react in that way. But if it will happen multiple times, there will be some kind of a consequence (especially if it really have the potential to kill 2 people).

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52 minutes ago, Timxx said:

Can you shortly elaborate that? I'm just thinking what can happen multiple times and people are considering that it is not dangerous ("geez, no one got hurt") and then it kills two people?! Normally after something went wrong the majority of people recognizes that this was a bit dangerous and will speak to the other people and maybe they will react in that way. But if it will happen multiple times, there will be some kind of a consequence (especially if it really have the potential to kill 2 people).

Sure.  

The first was Bob Holler, who was both a great guy and the boyfriend of a very close friend of ours. Another jumper, Danny Page, ran into him under canopy.  Danny had been talked to previously about high performance turns in the landing area.

The second was Pat McGowan, who was our player/coach.  Again, another jumper - Chris Stasky - ran into him.  Chris had been warned several times about his behavior in the pattern.  Afterwards at least one person I talked to said they knew it was coming; they had seen how he landed.

But again, these are skydivers we're talking about - and often they don't see their behavior as dangerous, both because many skydivers think they can't get hurt, and because people often get away with doing stupid stuff for a long time (HP turns in the landing area, downwind landings etc.)  And if you get away with something 40 times, and some old fart comes up with a boring lecture, are you going to listen to him?  Or are you going to ignore what the old fart says and go up and have fun jump #41?

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The issues with this Skydive have been covered very well already.  I won’t recover them.

What continues to be an issue is how this is being received.  There is a process to learning from a mistake.

Step 1, own it.  As a part of the group, you were part of the decision making process, even if you chose not not speak up and participate in that process.  Therefore, a poor plan is your fault.  Once you accept that this was your fault (and everyone in the group should do the same), you can move on the step 2.  You skipped this step and that is why there are so many replies to your post.

Step 2, identify the mistakes.

Step 3, identify what should have been done to prevent each mistake.

Finally, Step 4, implement these solutions (learn from the mistake(s)).  If you skip step 1, step 4 doesn’t really happen because if you didn’t make a mistake, why would you need to fix anything?

Yes, it is ok to laugh at mistakes that by luck didn’t result in a problem.  But only AFTER steps 1-4, not BEFORE.  

 

Derek V

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16 hours ago, billvon said:

I would add that sometimes it's not the person who does something stupid who gets hurt.  I've had two good friends killed by other skydivers "just having fun."  And in both cases it wasn't something new - these are people that had been talked to several times about the same problem that led to them killing other skydivers, and always answered along the lines of "geez, no one got hurt, what the fuck is your problem?"

My 5 year old son almost got smoked by a swooper coming through the spectator area about 6 weeks back.  I hear that, Bill.

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On 7/4/2019 at 1:31 AM, billvon said:

Funny video!  But in the future maybe stick to smaller formations until everyone can control their fallrates and approach speeds, and can refrain from mixing sitflying and belly until they have that control.

Dress for success. 4 way is much easier if appropriate jumpsuits are worn. 

Interesting thread as the original poster doesn’t appear to have attitude of being unwilling to learn, but clearly is lacking some knowledge. 

He’s been beaten to death with advice, poor guy. Glad they had fun and no one was hurt. I loved 4 way and hopefully there is enough belly 4 way at his DZ that he can find some good mentors to learn from.

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(edited)
6 hours ago, nigel99 said:

He's been beaten to death with advice, poor guy. 

There must be something evil in me but I have to admit I have found this point quite funny (ironic).  Don't you miss the days before GoPros, when what happened in the sky, stayed in the sky?

In the past you would a zoo jump like that and after landing tell everyone how many points you had turned.

Edited by neilmck
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On 7/17/2019 at 8:48 AM, neilmck said:

Don't you miss the days before GoPros

Well, more importantly than skydiving - There came a point where we stopped getting more altitude when boobs were flashed at the pilot. What happened on the DZ, stayed on the DZ. IDK - one day all the nakedness just vanished. :) I blame GoPros for the decline in skydiving. 

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18 hours ago, Phillbo said:

wow... that could have been nasty if not for the quick reaction of the 3.

I don't know if it was a "quick reaction" so much as they just happened to break off just before the other jumper's canopy crashed straight through them.
 

I sure hope conversations were had after this jump...

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