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gowlerk

Stupid firearm accident thread

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(edited)
1 hour ago, billvon said:

Just to be clear - I will NEVER be in favor of banning buns of any sort.

I don't either.  I was primarily referring to the legislators who actively oppose any regulation, mental health program, or educational programs intended to reduce gun violence while regularly "sending thoughts and prayers" to the families of gun violence victims.

The constant response to those wanting fewer deaths that they want to "BAN ALL GUNS" reminds me of the falsely generated lies to hate Hillary.

I missed the move into this alternate reality of ignoring factually correct information, and replacing it with falsehoods.

Edited by normiss

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4 minutes ago, normiss said:

those wanting fewer death that the want to "BAN ALL GUNS"

This is just a fringe group.  More and more people leave this group as they are educated about guns and what works and what doesn't. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Coreece said:

This is just a fringe group.  More and more people leave this group as they are educated about guns and what works and what doesn't. 

Agreed.  In that way it's similar to the abortion issue.  Once people start to meet real women who have had abortions, and realize that they are usually not careless, promiscuous women with no regard for life, they tend to leave the "ban all abortions" group behind.

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18 minutes ago, gowlerk said:
21 minutes ago, Coreece said:

This is why it's so hard to have a conversation with you like a normal person, because you ignore everything previously discussed.  It's like talking to a bot.

Then I'll just end this one right here. You can go right on believing that I do "gorilla math".

That's fine, just know that it's not my fault that your posts to me on this subject wouldn't pass a turing test.

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(edited)
25 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Then I'll just end this one right here. You can go right on believing that I do "gorilla math".

 

Go - Do you want to stop all death by mechanical means, or is it just guns that you care about?

Edited by turtlespeed
Added Direction

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18 minutes ago, billvon said:
28 minutes ago, Coreece said:

This is just a fringe group.  More and more people leave this group as they are educated about guns and what works and what doesn't. 

Agreed.  In that way it's similar to the abortion issue.  Once people start to meet real women who have had abortions, and realize that they are usually not careless, promiscuous women with no regard for life, they tend to leave the "ban all abortions" group behind. 

I can agree with that.

I will say however that I had a friend very close to me that had 3 late term abortions, and tho I never showed her any contempt, there was a pro-choice woman in this forum that called her an idiot.

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5 minutes ago, Coreece said:

I will say however that I had a friend very close to me that had 3 late term abortions, and tho I never showed her any contempt, there was a pro-choice woman in this forum that called her an idiot.

It's very hard to respond to a vague anecdote like that. All I can say is that we need to trust women. Even if they do things we don't always agree with. You are implying, but not saying, that this woman you know chose to use "late term abortion" , a nebulous term if there ever was one, as birth control. Without details, and without her story from her words, your account means little. Women need to be trusted with their bodies on their terms. Period.

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2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:
12 minutes ago, Coreece said:

I will say however that I had a friend very close to me that had 3 late term abortions, and tho I never showed her any contempt, there was a pro-choice woman in this forum that called her an idiot.

It's very hard to respond to a vague anecdote like that. All I can say is that we need to trust women. Even if they do things we don't always agree with. You are implying, but not saying, that this woman you know chose to use "late term abortion" , a nebulous term if there ever was one, as birth control. Without details, and without her story from her words, your account means little. Women need to be trusted with their bodies on their terms. Period.

Hey man, I'm not the one that called her an idiot.

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13 minutes ago, Coreece said:

I can agree with that.

I will say however that I had a friend very close to me that had 3 late term abortions, and tho I never showed her any contempt, there was a pro-choice woman in this forum that called her an idiot.

There are lots of people out there who are idiots; few people who get late term abortions.  There is undoubtedly some intersection between the two sets - but certainly no equality.  And the fact that someone got a late term abortion alone certainly doesn't make someone an idiot.

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1 minute ago, Coreece said:

Maybe a few thousand times 2, maybe even a little more.

You have still not defined "late term abortion". Abortions is the third trimester are not done for birth control. They are done for serious medical reasons. Women need to be trusted to make decisions with their doctors. The law has no business there. Canada has had no law on abortion at all for over 30 years. No one has shown that it had led to women using late term abortion as birth control.

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5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

No one has shown that it had led to women using late term abortion as birth control.

Indeed, laws that make birth control and abortion access more difficult for women (mandatory ultrasounds, counseling, waiting periods etc) tend to _increase_ late term abortion rates.

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55 minutes ago, Coreece said:

All I can say is that we need to trust women.

That is the bottom line isn't it?

Is it unfair that the potential father has his choice taken away because she decides to have an abortion?  Yes.

Does that matter?  No.

Is it unfair that the act of abortion goes against your religious beliefs?  Yes.  

Does that matter?  No.

Is it unfair that a woman has to live with the thought that she killed a potential child?  Perhaps.

Does THAT matter - No.

Why does none of this matter?

Because it is more of a travesty to force the choices you would make on anyone.

It is more of a travesty to take their choices away.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Coreece said:

Well, that's how you gauge the problem, implement solutions and measure progress, but why let that get in the way of your trolling?

Which is I think quite telling then that the US government has effectively banned government funding to be used for research into gun violence.

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1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

That is the bottom line isn't it?

Is it unfair that the potential father has his choice taken away because she decides to have an abortion?  Yes.

Does that matter?  No.

Is it unfair that the act of abortion goes against your religious beliefs?  Yes.  

Does that matter?  No.

Is it unfair that a woman has to live with the thought that she killed a potential child?  Perhaps.

Does THAT matter - No.

Why does none of this matter?

Because it is more of a travesty to force the choices you would make on anyone.

It is more of a travesty to take their choices away. 

 

 

It's also unfair that the woman takes all of the physical risk for a pregnancy. 

The woman is more likely to take the financial risk for the pregnancy than the man as well. Many men share the risk; few take it on alone.

The woman is more likely to take sole care of the child than the man is. Again, they may share, but the chance of the man taking over all care of the baby and leaving the woman alone is not as great as the other way around.

The woman is more likely to take a job/lifestyle hit because of taking care of the child. Not solely, but more likely.

There is a pregnancy, for which the woman takes the overwhelming majority of the risk. There is the baby, for which the woman, statistically, in the US, takes a disproportionate amount of the responsibility. People are VERY willing to say "well, she should have thought of that first." So maybe the man should have thought of it first before having his "choice removed" by the woman making a decision with her doctor.

In a responsible relationship, a decision not to carry a pregnancy to term would involve the father as well. Of course, so would the care of the child. Life isn't perfect.

Religious beliefs are that. They are based on faith, not on evidence. 

So, no, life isn't fair. 

Wendy P.

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3 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Is it unfair that the potential father has his choice taken away because she decides to have an abortion?  Yes.

I can not just leave this. NO, it is not unfair. Getting a woman pregnant DOES NOT entitle a man to become a father.

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1 hour ago, wmw999 said:

It's also unfair that the woman takes all of the physical risk for a pregnancy. 

The woman is more likely to take the financial risk for the pregnancy than the man as well. Many men share the risk; few take it on alone.

The woman is more likely to take sole care of the child than the man is. Again, they may share, but the chance of the man taking over all care of the baby and leaving the woman alone is not as great as the other way around.

The woman is more likely to take a job/lifestyle hit because of taking care of the child. Not solely, but more likely.

There is a pregnancy, for which the woman takes the overwhelming majority of the risk. There is the baby, for which the woman, statistically, in the US, takes a disproportionate amount of the responsibility. People are VERY willing to say "well, she should have thought of that first." So maybe the man should have thought of it first before having his "choice removed" by the woman making a decision with her doctor.

In a responsible relationship, a decision not to carry a pregnancy to term would involve the father as well. Of course, so would the care of the child. Life isn't perfect.

Religious beliefs are that. They are based on faith, not on evidence. 

So, no, life isn't fair. 

Wendy P.

I can't tell if we agree - or if you are presenting a different argument.

 

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(edited)

I'm pro-choice. I'm just saying life is unfair sometimes. Biology & social customs combine for that. So we probably agree on this, because I think your post (and posting history) indicate being pro-choice, just not that in favor of using later abortion as 'easy' birth control.

The "moment of conception" camp is almost as extreme as the "up to nine months" camp. Not quite, but darn close. 

To me, the soul is based on the person, not on God having assigned one. Because if it's on God, then dang, He's sure killed a lot of innocent unborn miscarriages and failure-to-implant eggs.

Wendy P.

Edited by wmw999

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20 hours ago, SkyDekker said:
23 hours ago, Coreece said:

Well, that's how you gauge the problem, implement solutions and measure progress, but why let that get in the way of your trolling?

Which is I think quite telling then that the US government has effectively banned government funding to be used for research into gun violence. 

While that was the ultimate effect of the Dickey amendment it didn't explicitly state that funding for research was banned.  This was clarified in language surrounding the new spending bill signed last year: 

"While appropriations language prohibits the CDC and other agencies from using appropriated funding to advocate or promote gun control, the Secretary of Health and Human Services has stated the CDC has the authority to conduct research on the causes of gun violence."

Democrats recently proposed $50 million for gun crime prevention research starting next year.  It better pass.

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1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

In yesterday's news.

There were 824 unintentional gun deaths in 1999, and 482 in 2015.  "Taking into account population growth over that time, the rate fell 48%."

"Experts attribute the decline to a mix of gun safety education programs, state laws regulating gun storage in homes and a drop in the number of households that have guns."

I know you're not interested in stats and facts,  so I guess you can just attribute that decline to all those thoughts and prayers you guys keep talking about.

In Canada however, they just keep happening over and over and again and again without any improvement over the last 5 years or so.  You guys may want to start doing something about that.

 

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3 minutes ago, Coreece said:

In Canada however, they just keep happening over and over and again and again without any improvement over the last 5 years or so.  You guys may want to start doing something about that.

The best thing Canada could do to reduce gun deaths is to stop the overflow of illegally imported weapons from the world's largest arms dealer. You.

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5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The best thing Canada could do to reduce gun deaths is to stop the overflow of illegally imported weapons from the world's largest arms dealer. You.

Not necessarily, as stated multiple times, the decline in the US has happened despite nearly doubling our guns over the last 30 years or so.

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