rredman 0 #1 June 15, 2006 I am putting together a list of guidelines for our DZ with regards to safety during a Tandem for the video guys. Here is what I have so far, but I would welcome any additions from some of the well seasoned videographers. I have done mostly 4-way camera, so all input is welcome! 1. SAFETY FIRST, GET THE SHOT 2ND! 2. Stay close on exit, but not close enough that drogue entanglement is possible. 3. During drogue fall, try to stay in front and below the pair, flying on your back if possible. 4. Tandem Instructors, wave off 500 ft before deployment 5. Video guys, at wave off, back up and as they deploy, you can flip to your back to get the shot, while you are tracking away. DO NOT, under any circumstances, “pop up” to get the cool shot. This has already killed at least 1 Tandem Instructor recently. Even if you believe you are being safe, a Tandem pair can easily slide under you during deployment. Blue Skies Ross Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #2 June 15, 2006 Not that I would even know what to recommend, but wouldn't it also make sense to have a list of the key skills/experience/knowledge that a videographer ought to have before doing tandem video?"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rredman 0 #3 June 15, 2006 Yup, but that is covered off in the Tandem training courses. I have only taken the RWS training, and guidelines are pretty strict, so this would be to let the folks who are qualified to make those jumps, aware of the possible dangers. I was not aware of some of them until I took the training, and then started reading these forums. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #4 June 15, 2006 Quote 1. SAFETY FIRST, GET THE SHOT 2ND! 2. Stay close on exit, but not close enough that drogue entanglement is possible. 3. During drogue fall, try to stay in front and below the pair, flying on your back if possible. 4. Tandem Instructors, wave off 500 ft before deployment 5. Video guys, at wave off, back up and as they deploy, you can flip to your back to get the shot, while you are tracking away. DO NOT, under any circumstances, “pop up” to get the cool shot. This has already killed at least 1 Tandem Instructor recently. Even if you believe you are being safe, a Tandem pair can easily slide under you during deployment. My experience level: 2000+ tandem videos shot. Here are a few comments: Stay close on exit, but not close enough that drogue entanglement is possible. Leaving just an instant before the tandem pain, stay below the tandem, taking the shot of exit from below keep you out of the way and get the plane in the background. "Tandem Instructors, wave off 500 ft before deployment" Try using a standardized Tandem Dive flow. It makes the dive flow very predicitable for the camera flyer and this helps a lot in the aspect of knowing what is going to happen next. The TI's might not like it but we are not making these jumps for our enjoyment, but rather for the paying customers enjoyment and safety. A tandem DiveFlow might look something like: Team Poised Exit (Otter Exit 14k, Cessna is usually diving exit - no intentional loops, tumbling or surprises). Drogue release, face into the sun. Camera flyer should be in position to get the face shot (7 seconds max is what we strive for, but fly within personal limitations). Couple of 360s L and R. Relax time/Alt/Heading Maintence/Geek Camera/ 7K lock on - 6k Wave, Arch Reach Pull (at our DZ, the tandem students are given the oppoutrunity to initate drouge release). Using a standard dive flow makes the Tandem Videos much safer to shoot because there are no "surprises" in what is going to happen next and the vid's and safety level are fantastic as a result! "During drogue fall, try to stay in front and below the pair, flying on your back if possible." Flying on my back is not possible for me to do safely with a tandem, I have much better control hanging on my wings (can easlily get steep enough to get the drouge in the background) - here I would emphasize to fly within ones limitations. Be wary of a premature deployment, stay out of the trap door area. Edited to add: the orientation of the camera flyer (on back, sitting, hanging on wings) is not as important as safely getting the shot, dont try to make the camera flyers use a certain body position, but rather what works best for them and thier abilities. Clint Eastwood said, "A man has to know his own limitations". "Video guys, at wave off, back up and as they deploy, you can flip to your back to get the shot, while you are tracking away. When we are nearing deployment time what the camera staff where I work began using as a guideline after the accident you mentioned is to clear the area below and in front of the tandem. Around 7K we move to the side, around 10 feet away and as the tandem begins to reach for the drouge release then the camera flyer begins to "track" backwards away from the tanden pair. If you use your wings you can create a lot of distance while getting the opening shot, by the time you are ready to "turn and burn" a lot of seperation has already occoured.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #5 June 15, 2006 QuoteNot that I would even know what to recommend, but wouldn't it also make sense to have a list of the key skills/experience/knowledge that a videographer ought to have before doing tandem video? Yes, 500 jumps is reccommended to begin entry level camera flying at our DZ along with a lot of instruction handed down by the senior camera flyers - it is a good policy... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #6 June 15, 2006 Quote3. During drogue fall, try to stay in front and below the pair, flying on your back if possible. Why is that so important? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rredman 0 #7 June 15, 2006 Thank you so much... that is exactly the kind of input I was looking for. Don't mind if I quot you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #8 June 15, 2006 QuoteThank you so much... that is exactly the kind of input I was looking for. Don't mind if I quot you? Not at all, PM'd you, look for a message... I just made some edits to my origional posting, give her another look...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #9 June 15, 2006 I'd forget the flying on your back unless you are a damn good freeflier. I've tried it and can get the shot about 50% of the time, the rest I can't or I feel would'nt be able to do it safely. Be Predictable. Thats one of the biggest things. Don't suddenly carve around the tandem unless they know you are doing it. Don't pop up in mid jump unless its be discussed. Don't dock unless that was discussed also. Communicate with the TM before you gear up to get a dive flow planned. Know the cone of death and stay away from it. The tracking on deployment... thats a debate to be had in the photography area Some do, some don't. 3 seconds under canopy and I'll cover groundand have seperatation. Issue is you could track for 4 seconds on your back, flip have a 180 and be right back under them. That or if its a spinner the tandem will go in any random direction so tracking might not help at all.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #10 June 15, 2006 QuoteThe tracking on deployment... thats a debate to be had in the photography area. Some do, some don't. 3 seconds under canopy and I'll cover groundand have seperatation. Issue is you could track for 4 seconds on your back, flip have a 180 and be right back under them. That or if its a spinner the tandem will go in any random direction so tracking might not help at all. I see a lot of camera flyers take a lackadaisical approach to tracking after tandem deployment - I have learned to always track after the tandem deploys for a long and far as I can depending on how far from the LZ the spot was. Years ago, after a tandem deployment I gave a good track, saddled in and just after I turned my camera off and began taking care of the standard business at hand the sniveling reserve on the tandem passed right in front of my canopy, probably 20 feet in front of me, very freaking CLOSE - they had a streamer malfunction. It happened so fast it was over before I knew it but in the aftermath it scared the hell out of me and gave me things to think about. As much separation as possible is not over rated.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 June 16, 2006 2. Stay close on exit, but not close enough that drogue entanglement is possible. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you cannot be a second early, be two seconds late. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #12 June 16, 2006 Quote2. Stay close on exit, but not close enough that drogue entanglement is possible. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you cannot be a second early, be two seconds late. Hell ya! Better 6 feet to high then 6 inches to low eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #13 June 16, 2006 So are you saying if you had'nt tracked the tandem would have been further away? See, this is the arguement I have heard a few times. Some would rather stay on their back filming the opening to ensure a good canopy, others like to flip and track. Others back track some then flip. I even was watching one person at WFFC years ago that was tossing as soon as the tandem was 3/4 open so they could film from behind under canopy. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #14 June 16, 2006 QuoteSo are you saying if you had'nt tracked the tandem would have been further away? Good point. Falls under the shit happens category but overall the blame is on me cuz it is my responsibility to get clear. Still, I believe that tracking is the best option, be it on the back or backsliding on wings, get separation. I usually watch the tandem opening to ensure a good canopy as much as possible. Don’t know why I screwed the pooch on this one, maybe we were on a really long spot, maybe I was just caught up in a quagmire of complacency - can remember the exact details (years ago) but the memory of the reserve sniveling past me is still quite vivid. The experience got me on my toes though, have been more careful to keep a watchful eye on the tandem opening ever since. Perhaps this one should go under “Stupid Things”.Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
