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brenthutch

Green new deal equals magical thinking

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44 minutes ago, olofscience said:

And really, even if I made the mistake conflating it (and I didn't, you just misunderstood what I said), 

“But renewable energy will actually win out eventually - like electric cars“

Let me type slowly so you may understand.....”renewable energy...like electric cars”

No misunderstanding, you said what you meant and you meant what you said.  You were just wrong.  However I expect you are man enough to fess up to it.

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8 hours ago, brenthutch said:

“But renewable energy will actually win out eventually - like electric cars“

Let me type slowly so you may understand.....”renewable energy...like electric cars”

No misunderstanding, you said what you meant and you meant what you said.  You were just wrong.  However I expect you are man enough to fess up to it.

Again, even IF I was wrong, you then pretty much followed off the cliff like a lemming.

But if I thought electric cars were renewable energy, why would I be the one to call out your confusion on it?

Getting back on topic, do you think renewable energy companies make a loss and are completely dependent on subsidies?

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(edited)
3 hours ago, olofscience said:

Again, even IF I was wrong, you then pretty much followed off the cliff like a lemming.

Your knowledge of lemmings is only unsurpassed by your understanding of green energy 

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=56

Edited by brenthutch

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(edited)
41 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Nice try avoiding the topic.

To address your point, I don’t believe that renewable power companies rely 100% on government handouts.  However, if they were truly  profitable, private capital would flood in and finance their efforts.  But they are not and that is why they need governmental backstops in the form of direct subsidies, tax breaks, feed-in tariffs and mandates.

Edited by brenthutch

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1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

But they are not and that is why they need governmental backstops in the form of direct subsidies, tax breaks, feed-in tariffs and mandates.

Which the fossil fuel industry is getting in much greater numbers and has been getting for decades. Haven't you figured out yet this part of your argument is stupid?

Never mind that tax policy has been used for centuries to shape and guide society, weird to only use it here as reasoning the industry is not viable.

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1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

However, if they were truly  profitable, private capital would flood in and finance their efforts.  But they are not

So...is this your final answer? That they are not truly profitable?

What if I post a set of GAAP or IFRS accounts of renewable energy companies, which contains the details of the subsidies, subtract those, then surely they won't be profitable?

Otherwise, you'll have to eat your hat.

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(edited)

Let’s hop in the way-back machine.  I said renewable energy was not economically viable, you said “ using that logic neither is oil” after a bit I posted an article laying out how oil and gas companies did not NEED subsidies, (unlike renewables ) The fact that they get them is not germane to the argument.

(I was replying to SkyDekker)

Edited by brenthutch

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10 minutes ago, olofscience said:

So...is this your final answer? That they are not truly profitable?

What if I post a set of GAAP or IFRS accounts of renewable energy companies, which contains the details of the subsidies, subtract those, then surely they won't be profitable?

Otherwise, you'll have to eat your hat.

I didn’t say any particular company.  You giving an example of one company losing money and declaring the whole sector unviable, would be like me using the example of Trump loosing money on the Taj Mahal as proof that casinos are unprofitable.

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27 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Let’s hop in the way-back machine.  I said renewable energy was not economically viable, you said “ using that logic neither is oil” after a bit I posted an article laying out how oil and gas companies did not NEED subsidies, (unlike renewables ) The fact that they get them is not germane to the argument.

(I was replying to SkyDekker)

After decades and decades of subsidies they now not need them, yet continue to get them in various forms. You somehow think that is a straight comparison to the renewable energy industry. And then you somehow conflate that with subsidies given to Tesla......

Never mind that you stated that currently the fossil fuel industry net net net does not get subsidies. You still haven't explained that one, even though you keep saying how simple that is going to be......

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50 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I didn’t say any particular company

Your statement had 2 parts:

  • that renewable energy companies aren't profitable and survive only through subsidies
  • that renewable energy companies don't get private capital

Both would be so easy to disprove, that now you're retreating into "I didn't say any particular company" excuse. But we can even apply this analysis to the sector as a whole. Numbers can settle the debate.

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

giving an example of one company losing money and declaring the whole sector unviable, would be like me using the example of Trump loosing money on the Taj Mahal as proof that casinos are unprofitable.

But don't you realise that by declaring the entire renewable energy sector financially unviable, you're pretty much doing the same thing?

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1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

I didn’t say any particular company.  You giving an example of one company losing money and declaring the whole sector unviable, would be like me using the example of Trump loosing money on the Taj Mahal as proof that casinos are unprofitable.

Since casinos clearly ARE very profitable it seems more like proof that Trump is an incompetent fool.

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1 hour ago, olofscience said:

But don't you realise that by declaring the entire renewable energy sector financially unviable, you're pretty much doing the same thing?

OK, I will take #4 off the table, that leaves us with:


1.  Climate changes, it always has and always will, it has been warming in fits and starts since the end of the Little Ice Age.

2.  Climate related deaths have dropped dramatically during the last hundred years and the elevated CO2 levels have resulted in a literal greening of the planet and have contributed to record food production.

3.  Fossil fuels have an energy density unmatched by renewables and we have a centuries+ worth in recoverable reserves.
 

5.  Wind and Solar are not ecologically benign and require heavy industrial and mining processes for their production and have to be replaced every twenty to thirty years.

6.  Wind and solar are unreliable and lead to skyrocketing energyprices where their adoption is widespread ($.30+kWh in Germany and Denmark)

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