Green new deal equals magical thinking

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

10 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

High current adapters in the hands of consumers will probably not be feasible. A standard will be needed.

Hi Ken,

It really comes down to the actual design & how it functions.  Consumers can currently buy a variety of electrical 'gadgets' that are fairly high current products.

My son-in-law is a electrical engineer who works in design.  I just sent him an email to get to work on designing an adapter.

Jerry Baumchen

PS)  Isn't it amazing how we now have so much time to spend on this forum?

 

[billvon 2,380]

15 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

High current adapters in the hands of consumers will probably not be feasible. A standard will be needed.

They already exist.  I have a ChaDeMo to Tesla adapter, for example.  There's now a CCS to Tesla adapter out.

There are basically three standards out there. CCS, which almost everyone is using.  ChaDeMo, which Nissan is using.  And Tesla, which of course Tesla is using.

[gowlerk 1,903]

19 minutes ago, billvon said:

They already exist.  I have a ChaDeMo to Tesla adapter, for example.  There's now a CCS to Tesla adapter out.

Cool. Are they easy enough to use that a non-technical person can easily switch from one type to another?

[airdvr 197]

22 minutes ago, billvon said:

They already exist.  I have a ChaDeMo to Tesla adapter, for example.  There's now a CCS to Tesla adapter out.

There are basically three standards out there. CCS, which almost everyone is using.  ChaDeMo, which Nissan is using.  And Tesla, which of course Tesla is using.

When you go to a non-Tesla station I'm assuming they are charging ($$) for the service?

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

14 minutes ago, airdvr said:

When you go to a non-Tesla station I'm assuming they are charging ($$) for the service?

Hi airdvr,

To the best of my knowledge, not here in Oregon.

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,294]

4 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi airdvr,

To the best of my knowledge, not here in Oregon.

Jerry Baumchen

And the attendants are out of work strippers who are happy to plug you in.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

10 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

And the attendants are out of work strippers who are happy to plug you in.

Hi Joe,

What do you mean 'out of work?'

Aren't you the one who did the OP on the strippers in Portland doing door-to-door deliveries?

Jerry Baumchen

[JoeWeber 2,294]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Joe,

What do you mean 'out of work?'

Aren't you the one who did the OP on the strippers in Portland doing door-to-door deliveries?

Jerry Baumchen

That's only the Lucky Devil. The other 28 clubs also need help. 

[brenthutch 383]

"there is an inverse relationship in the United States and Europe between public concern about the environment and worries about economic conditions. Similarly, concern about economic growth has often caused China to ratchet back its environmental ambitions."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/27/coronavirus-pandemic-shows-why-no-global-progress-on-climate-change/

 

[DJL 232]

21 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

"there is an inverse relationship in the United States and Europe between public concern about the environment and worries about economic conditions. Similarly, concern about economic growth has often caused China to ratchet back its environmental ambitions."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/27/coronavirus-pandemic-shows-why-no-global-progress-on-climate-change/

 

Short term economic priorities and long term environmental needs can be at odds with each other.

[billvon 2,380]

19 hours ago, airdvr said:

When you go to a non-Tesla station I'm assuming they are charging ($$) for the service?

For fast charging, yes.  For standard rate charging, about 2/3 of the places I know of charge; 1/3 do not charge you.

[gowlerk 1,903]

6 minutes ago, billvon said:

For fast charging, yes.  For standard rate charging, about 2/3 of the places I know of charge; 1/3 do not charge you.

Fuel costs money as does infrastructure. In order for this industry to grow and mature running charging stations will need to become a profitable business.

[ryoder 1,380]

6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Fuel costs money as does infrastructure. In order for this industry to grow and mature running charging stations will need to become a profitable business.

Some people seem to be betting on it:

https://www.chargepoint.com/

https://semaconnect.com/

https://chargehub.com/en/

https://www.evgo.com/

[billvon 2,380]

5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Fuel costs money as does infrastructure. In order for this industry to grow and mature running charging stations will need to become a profitable business.

Indeed.  However that doesn't mean "pay to charge."  Two examples:

1) Workplace charging.  Many companies find it easy to add charging as a "perk" to attract employees.  An outlet, junction box, wire and conduit is about $10 from Home Depot.  Even adding in the usual construction markups, you can put in a lot of charging for very little money.  And being able to commute without fuel costs can be a decent hiring incentive.

2) Volta.  Volta is a company that provides free level 2 charging.  They make fun of their own lack of apparent business case.  But they get money from two places - from shopping centers who want to add EV charging and from ads they run on the massive screen on each charger.  Shopping centers, restaurants, movie theaters etc are clamoring for chargers, because the perception is that EV owners all have Tesla model S's and therefore have a lot of money - and stores, restaurants and movie theaters want to attract people with a lot of money.

What helps with both of these things is that electricity is cheap, and you can meter it out as slowly as you like.  Those outlets don't output more than 1400 watts, for example.  And you can back that off to 720 watts if you like.

 

[brenthutch 383]

Everyone keeps whistling past the graveyard of the Green New Deal and would rather talk about coal and natural gas fired charging stations for their subsidized toys, as Bill just pointed out. 

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

51 minutes ago, billvon said:

1) Workplace charging.  Many companies find it easy to add charging as a "perk" to attract employees.  An outlet, junction box, wire and conduit is about $10 from Home Depot.  Even adding in the usual construction markups, you can put in a lot of charging for very little money.  And being able to commute without fuel costs can be a decent hiring incentive.

Hi Bill,

I got to thinking about this a while back.  I do not see any of the charging stations that have any type of secure attachment.  Let's say you drive to work, plug your EV in & head for the office, planning on it being charged when you get off of work.  But, some wise a$$ teenager, with nothing better to do, decides to unplug your car.  Now, you're stuck, at least for a fair amount of time.

Jerry B aumchen

[SkyDekker 1,121]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Shopping centers, restaurants, movie theaters etc are clamoring for chargers, because the perception is that EV owners all have Tesla model S's and therefore have a lot of money - and stores, restaurants and movie theaters want to attract people with a lot of money.

That isn't entirely true. Though there is some interest due to perceived disposable income. The bigger driver is the mapping that comes with it. Having chargers on site makes you stand out on relevant maps, which drives traffic. Even those who aren't Model S rich will likely grab a coffee, or a subway while waiting to charge.

[billvon 2,380]

57 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

I got to thinking about this a while back.  I do not see any of the charging stations that have any type of secure attachment.  Let's say you drive to work, plug your EV in & head for the office, planning on it being charged when you get off of work.  But, some wise a$$ teenager, with nothing better to do, decides to unplug your car.  Now, you're stuck, at least for a fair amount of time.

Jerry B aumchen

1) Many cars will lock the plug once you plug it in.  (Actually sort of a pain in the butt because then you can't unplug someone when they are finished charging.)

2) The stations I was talking about are just plain old outlets, one per parking spot.  So it's not really a charging connector.  But people could still unplug you at the AC outlet.  Many EV's have a utility that will alert you via email if this happens.

[millertimeunc 0]

Bill, the base where I'm stationed is trying to incentivize people to drive EV's. It helps that we're in a location which can have harsh winters, so many parking spots already have electrical connections for engine block heaters. It takes forever for any kind of construction to happen, but dedicated charging stations are probably not too far off. In the mean time, EV's get preferential parking.

[billvon 2,380]

6 minutes ago, millertimeunc said:

Bill, the base where I'm stationed is trying to incentivize people to drive EV's. It helps that we're in a location which can have harsh winters, so many parking spots already have electrical connections for engine block heaters. It takes forever for any kind of construction to happen, but dedicated charging stations are probably not too far off. In the mean time, EV's get preferential parking.

I'm always a little disappointed to see that, but it makes sense from an infrastructure perspective (the closest spots to the door are also the closest spots to the power.)  In an ideal world I'd prefer to see chargers at farther spots, so they're not taking up the spaces that used most often.  (And there's less incentive for ICE cars to block them illegally.)

[millertimeunc 0]

I think we're headed that direction in the DOD. Our current base leadership is really pushing a few green initiatives, which I don't think is a bad thing. They have a ways to go with recycling, unfortunately. My attitude toward recycling REALLY changed after living in Japan for a while. I used to think I did well with recycling in the U.S., but I was wrong. There, we had to sort and clean all recyclables and put them in a clear plastic bag for pick up, and they would NOT pick them up if there was something unclean or sorted incorrectly. It's about a week's worth of headache until you figure out a system, and then it's easy. We came back to the States, and our recycling manager on base gives us a stern lecture for trying to recycle too much. It turns out they only take a few types of recyclable items.

[brenthutch 383]

[ryoder 1,380]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

1) Many cars will lock the plug once you plug it in.  (Actually sort of a pain in the butt because then you can't unplug someone when they are finished charging.)
 

I was watching a Youtube channel where an English dude had borrowed an electric bike for an extended demo. On one occasion, a charging station was acting up and it refused to unlock the plug after charging was complete and paid for. It took him some frantic minutes of fighting with the machine before it finally unlocked. LOL

[Phil1111 908]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Everyone keeps whistling past the graveyard of the Green New Deal and would rather talk about coal and natural gas fired charging stations for their subsidized toys, as Bill just pointed out. 

Coronavirus Threatens to Blow Up Trump’s Energy Trade Deal With China

"Energy trade was the centerpiece of U.S. President Donald Trump’s just-completed pact with China, seemingly matching soaring U.S. production of oil and natural gas with bottomless Chinese demand for fuel."

Will the coronavirus kill the oil industry and help save the climate?

" 2019 will go down in history as the peak year for carbon emissions .. Covid-19 have really thrown the oil and gas sector into turmoil, and now we have companies really in survival mode,..

Wood Mackenzie last week analysed the impact of an oil price of $35 on companies’ previous investment plans for 2020. “It’s a very, very ugly picture,” said Kretzschmar. “At $35 per barrel, 75% of projects don’t even cover the cost of capital.”

Most strikingly, the fat rates of return projected for the oil and gas projects have slumped from about 20% down to 6%, she said. “They’re very much in line now with what you can get from solar and wind projects.”

Is This The Beginning Of The End For Texas Oil?    " the average price that a driller needs to simply cover operating expenses (let alone earn a return) ranged from $23 in the Eagle Ford to $36 in “other” shale basins. In other words, with WTI currently trading below $25 per barrel, the “average” shale driller is not even covering the cost of keeping shale wells online....

Those are just the costs for operating. Breakevens to drill new wells are roughly double those levels, with average breakevens for Permian wells at $46. But even that figure only includes the cost of drilling a new well, and excludes other costs, such as debt servicing, overhead, and other corporate costs. “At $40 per barrel, you’re in the hole; at $30, it is hard to even keep producing existing wells. Nothing can be drilled at $30 per barrel,” one oil executive said in the Dallas Fed survey. 

That does not mean that there will be an immediate wave of shut-ins. Companies keep operations going for a variety of reasons – there are costs to starting up and shutting down, the reservoir can be damaged in the process, and certain terms of land leases or debt obligations incentivize drilling even when it may not make sense."

Will the last ICE lover just turn the jackpump off because nobody will refine it anymore.Like a big juicy steak, put a fork into oil because its done.

[brenthutch 383]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

Will the last ICE lover just turn the jackpump off because nobody will refine it anymore.Like a big juicy steak, put a fork into oil because its done.

I will have to remember that.  From your article;

"the fossil fuel industry will bounce back as it always has, and bargain basement oil prices will slow the much-needed transition to green energy."

AKA, RIP GND.