Green new deal equals magical thinking

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

the kickbacks of taxpayer dollars going to wind and solar companies 

 

•  

You mean to say that these companies are giving out kickbacks to the politicians that make the laws?

Surely not.

That would mean that the solar industry is not looking out for the best interest of the people - That is impossible.

[billvon 2,379]

4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Renewables are a tax drain while oil and gas contribute billions to the coffers of state, local and federal government.

 

?? Are you claiming that renewables do not contribute to jobs, create new industries and foster a positive trade balance - and that oil and gas do not get massive tax breaks?  Interesting.  (In addition, there's the nice benefit that closing coal plants mean fewer dead and dying Americans - nice bonus!)

Quote

BTW there is a BIG difference between letting companies and share holders keep a bit more of THEIR money and reducing the kickbacks of taxpayer dollars going to wind and solar companies 

That's all the solar tax credit is.  You get to keep just a little more of your hard earned money.  And you think that's bad?

[gowlerk 1,901]

17 hours ago, millertime24 said:

Care to explain how solar will never run out? I've seen MANY scientists who disagree.

Good one! Solar will not run out during the time period that humans exist on Earth.

[billvon 2,379]

16 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Good one! Solar will not run out during the time period that humans exist on Earth.

Indeed, it will not run out for as long as the Earth exists.  (And once we leave the Earth, then we're probably not going to be able to use the Sun as much.)

[brenthutch 383]

7 hours ago, billvon said:

?? Are you claiming that renewables do not contribute to jobs, create new industries and foster a positive trade balance - and that oil and gas do not get massive tax breaks?  Interesting.  (In addition, there's the nice benefit that closing coal plants mean fewer dead and dying Americans - nice bonus!)

That's all the solar tax credit is.  You get to keep just a little more of your hard earned money.  And you think that's bad?

No, I am just stating the simple truth that, on a whole, oil and gas contribute to the tax base while renewables are a drain.  If you have facts to the contrary I would be glad to hear them.

BTW who said anything about coal?

Edited May 28, 2019 by brenthutch

[millertime24 8]

17 hours ago, billvon said:

Indeed, it will not run out for as long as the Earth exists.  (And once we leave the Earth, then we're probably not going to be able to use the Sun as much.)

So you hypothesize the earth will be destroyed by some other phenomena before the sun exhausts all of its fuel? Interesting.

[gowlerk 1,901]

1 hour ago, millertime24 said:

So you hypothesize the earth will be destroyed by some other phenomena before the sun exhausts all of its fuel? Interesting.

The Earth will certainly be destroyed as the Sun ages and well before its fuel is exhausted.

[wmw999 2,114]

2 hours ago, millertime24 said:

So you hypothesize the earth will be destroyed by some other phenomena before the sun exhausts all of its fuel? Interesting.

If you think that the existence of the earth in its current form will matter to "humans" in the millions/billions of years that it'll take the sun to exhaust its power, that's even more interesting. We are far more ephemeral than the earth or the sun. 

Wendy P.

[billvon 2,379]

5 hours ago, millertime24 said:

So you hypothesize the earth will be destroyed by some other phenomena before the sun exhausts all of its fuel? Interesting.

Yes - although the two are quite interrelated.  But by that point we will have moved on anyway, one way or another.

[turtlespeed 212]

4 hours ago, billvon said:

Yes - although the two are quite interrelated.  But by that point we will have moved on anyway, one way or another.

The dino's moved on.

It was because of abrupt climate change!

[billvon 2,379]

5 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

The dino's moved on.

It was because of abrupt climate change!

Fifty million years ago
You walked upon the planet so
Lord of all that you could see
Just a little bit like me

Walking in your footsteps . . .

 

Hey mighty brontosaurus
Don't you have a lesson for us
You thought your rule would always last
There were no lessons in your past
Walking in your footsteps . . . .

[kallend 1,618]

6 hours ago, billvon said:

Fifty million years ago
You walked upon the planet so
Lord of all that you could see
Just a little bit like me

Walking in your footsteps . . .

 

Hey mighty brontosaurus
Don't you have a lesson for us
You thought your rule would always last
There were no lessons in your past
Walking in your footsteps . . . .

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay

Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare

The lone and level sands stretch far away.

[millertime24 8]

8 hours ago, kallend said:

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay

Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare

The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Is this your own work or did you read it elsewhere? I only ask because I see no cited source. To some, that could be interpreted as plagiarism. 

Reminds me of Ozzy for some reason

Edited May 29, 2019 by millertime24

[kallend 1,618]

1 hour ago, millertime24 said:

Is this your own work or did you read it elsewhere? I only ask because I see no cited source. To some, that could be interpreted as plagiarism. 

Reminds me of Ozzy for some reason

No need.  Every literate person knows the source, and the illiterate wouldn't understand anyway.

[gowlerk 1,901]

6 minutes ago, kallend said:

No need.  Every literate person knows the source, and the illiterate wouldn't understand anyway.

In North America we don't commonly study Shelley in school. I had to look it up. Does that make me semi-literate?

[ryoder 1,380]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

No need.  Every literate person knows the source, and the illiterate wouldn't understand anyway.

Also, fans of "Breaking Bad" or "The Ballad of Buster Scruggs".

[turtlespeed 212]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

In North America we don't commonly study Shelley in school. I had to look it up. Does that make me semi-literate?

Evidently - it makes you not literate.  There was no grey scale.

The word literate was even bolded to make sure that the insult was felt deeply.

Edited May 29, 2019 by turtlespeed

[brenthutch 383]

2 hours ago, gowlerk said:

In North America we don't commonly study Shelley in school. I had to look it up. Does that make me semi-literate?

Shelley?  We had to read her in high school.

[normiss 619]

2 hours ago, ryoder said:

Also, fans of "Breaking Bad" or "The Ballad of Buster Scruggs".

The Ballad of Buster Scruggs is an excellent piece.

[billvon 2,379]

2 hours ago, ryoder said:

Also, fans of "Breaking Bad" or "The Ballad of Buster Scruggs".

And anyone who's seen the Watchmen.

[gowlerk 1,901]

Hey, Billvon did not credit his lyric quote either. But no one failed to recognized the guy who wrote "An Englishman in New York". Shelley probably never visited NY.

[billvon 2,379]

Bad news for people claiming renewables are "magical thinking" - 

===========================

Renewable Energy Costs Take Another Tumble

Forbes May 29, 2019, 07:00am

The cost of renewable energy has tumbled even further over the past year, to the point where almost every source of green energy can now compete on cost with oil, coal and gas-fired power plants, according to new data released today.

 . . .

The ability of renewable energy to compete effectively against the older fossil fuel technologies is coming as a result of consistent falls in the cost of new plants. Last year alone, the global weighted-average cost of electricity from bioenergy fell by 14%, while solar PV and onshore wind costs dropped by 13% and hydropower fell by 11%. The sharpest fall came in the cost of CSP plants, which dropped by 26%. The cost of geothermal and offshore wind appeared to plateau though, with costs edging down by just 1%.

IRENA says these trends are likely to continue over the next decade, particularly for solar and wind power technologies. According to the organisation's database, over 75% of the onshore wind and 80% of the solar PV capacity due to be commissioned next year will produce power at lower prices than the cheapest new coal, oil or natural gas options. “Crucially, they are set to do so without financial assistance,” it noted.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dominicdudley/2019/05/29/renewable-energy-costs-tumble/#653dd105e8ce

=============================

[brenthutch 383]

8 hours ago, billvon said:

 According to the organisation's database, over 75% of the onshore wind and 80% of the solar PV capacity due to be commissioned next year will produce power at lower prices than the cheapest new coal, oil or natural gas options. “Crucially, they are set to do so without financial assistance,” it noted.

=============================

And as soon as they do I will be all in!  (It’s called economics)

[turtlespeed 212]

22 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

And as soon as they do I will be all in!  (It’s called economics)

Call me cynical, but, I have a sneaky suspicion that you won't exactly be "All in."

I don't think there is much that will ever convince you that renewable energy, solar, and wind technology, along with its research, is necessary, or even a good idea.

[billvon 2,379]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

And as soon as they do I will be all in!  (It’s called economics)

I am glad I do not make my decisions based purely on economics (and what makes me wealthiest.)