What counts as a freefall jump?

[veazer 0]

For an A license, what specifically counts as a "freefall jump" to count towards the 25? I'm assuming any static line jumps are out, but what about hop and pops? If you jump at 5500 ft, how long do you have to wait or how low do you have to pull to have it count?

Edited March 5, 2019 by veazer

[pchapman 277]

Hop and pops count. You are still 'free' as you exit the aircraft, even if you initiate deployment as soon as you clear the aircraft.
(Static line, direct bagging, Instructor Assisted Deployment, and drag-offs wouldn't count. But some of that is pretty esoteric and not an issue for you to worry about.)

Edited March 5, 2019 by pchapman

[linebckr83 3]

18 hours ago, Divalent said:

Actually, the USPA A License requirement is for "25 jumps", not "25 free fall jumps".

The SIM defines a "jump" as a "skydive", which in turn is defined as "The descent of a person to the surface from an aircraft in flight when he or she uses or intends to use a parachute during all or part of that descent." 

So even if your parachute was deployed before you left the aircraft (only recommended if you are jumping from an hot air balloon), it would still count.  (And even if you bounce with all handles in place, it is still a jump (although you would never remember that))

 

Didn't the board vote to change this at a recent meeting?  There's a thread about it in the Instructor's forum.  That's probably why the OP is asking the question.

[bill6870 3]

14 hours ago, Divalent said:

Hmm, I didn't see that.  I pulled up the online version of the SIM to check things, so if they did change the requirements, they haven't yet put it into the SIM.

From the latest SIM currently on USPA's website. Clearly states 25 freefall skydives.

Note: USPA Headquarters will accept either
completed card signed by a USPA Instructor
without the official stamp. The registration fee
must be included.
1. Persons holding a USPA A license may
jump without supervision, pack their
own main parachute, engage in basic
group jumps, perform water jumps, and
must have—
a. completed 25 freefall skydives
b. completed all requirements listed on
the USPA A License Proficiency Card
c. completed five group freefall
skydives involving at least two
participants
d. received the signature and official
stamp on the USPA A License
Proficiency Card or USPA A License
Progression Card (ISP) which validates
the A license for a 60-day time limit
following the completion of the card
e. The completed and signed USPA A
License Proficiency Card or USPA A
License Progression Card must be
validated within 60-days of
completion by sending the card to
USPA Headquarters. Once validated,
USPA will issue a license number
that becomes a permanent record
of the member.
f. passed the USPA-developed written
and oral USPA A-license exams
conducted by a current USPA I, IE,
S&TA, or USPA Board member

Edited March 8, 2019 by bill6870

[JBecker 0]

On 3/5/2019 at 3:20 PM, veazer said:

For an A license, what specifically counts as a "freefall jump" to count towards the 25? I'm assuming any static line jumps are out, but what about hop and pops? If you jump at 5500 ft, how long do you have to wait or how low do you have to pull to have it count?

Copied out of current SIM (2019-2020, Winter 2019 BOD implemented version) glossary:

FREEFALL: The portion of a parachute jump or drop between aircraft exit and parachute deployment in which the parachute is activated manually by the parachutist at the parachutist’s discretion or automatically, or, in the case of an object, is activated automatically. (FAR 105 definition)

and then...

DEPLOYMENT: After activation, extraction of the parachute from the container and full extension of the system prior to inflation.

[Divalent 106]

Actually, the USPA A License requirement is for "25 jumps", not "25 free fall jumps".

The SIM defines a "jump" as a "skydive", which in turn is defined as "The descent of a person to the surface from an aircraft in flight when he or she uses or intends to use a parachute during all or part of that descent." 

So even if your parachute was deployed before you left the aircraft (only recommended if you are jumping from an hot air balloon), it would still count.  (And even if you bounce with all handles in place, it is still a jump (although you would never remember that))

 

[veazer 0]

2 hours ago, JBecker said:

parachute is activated manually by the parachutist at the parachutist’s discretion or automatically,

The "or automatically" makes me think static line would potentially count.

[SethInMI 160]

8 minutes ago, veazer said:

The "or automatically" makes me think static line would potentially count.

Automatically means via an AAD, not a static line.

I guess it would blur things a bit if you had a really long (500+ft) static line that allowed the jumper to get some "freefall" time, but pratically speaking USPA DZs won't count static line or IAD jumps anymore, so there is no "potential" to count on.

[billvon 2,738]

18 hours ago, veazer said:

The "or automatically" makes me think static line would potentially count.

I don't think skydivers are considered objects.  That SIM entry covers both parachute jumps (people) and parachute drops (cargo.)

[veazer 0]

21 hours ago, JBecker said:

manually by the parachutist at the parachutist’s discretion or automatically

This is the automatically I was referring to. It then goes on to say, "or, in the case of an object, is activated automatically." 

While I agree that a free fall jump is anything other than static line / iad, it doesn't seem clearly defined in the SIM/Far. 

[JBecker 0]

On 6/24/2019 at 1:30 PM, veazer said:

This is the automatically I was referring to. It then goes on to say, "or, in the case of an object, is activated automatically." 

While I agree that a free fall jump is anything other than static line / iad, it doesn't seem clearly defined in the SIM/Far. 

Clarity is always better. Getting in the weeds here, but as was alluded to before, by literal interpretation of "freefall" as defined in the SIM glossary (from exit to deployment) even IAD & SL have SOME amount of freefall. 

[SethInMI 160]

On 6/25/2019 at 10:06 PM, JBecker said:

Clarity is always better. Getting in the weeds here, but as was alluded to before, by literal interpretation of "freefall" as defined in the SIM glossary (from exit to deployment) even IAD & SL have SOME amount of freefall. 

I would say IAD you are already in the deployment sequence when you leave the plane as your pilot chute is out. Static line is a little murky.

[JBecker 0]

13 hours ago, SethInMI said:

I would say IAD you are already in the deployment sequence when you leave the plane as your pilot chute is out. Static line is a little murky.

Well, there's deployment, and then there's deployment, right?

Cat A FJC (page 23): 

4. Parachute opening occurs in three stages:
a. Activation—Deployment of the parachute begins once the container is opened (activated) in one of three ways:
(1) pulling the ripcord
(2) throwing the pilot chute
(3) static line
b. Deployment—The parachute comes out of the backpack.
c. Inflation—The canopy fills with air.

 

Which deployment ends freefall?

Of interest to this conversation, the Safety & Training Committee is also discussing this topic. From page 17 of the Feb 2019 BOD minutes:

Discussed defining “freefall skydive” for the purposes for the A license at IAD and SL drop zones, possibly eliminating the word “freefall.” Discussion tabled.

[Divalent 106]

18 hours ago, linebckr83 said:

Didn't the board vote to change this at a recent meeting?  There's a thread about it in the Instructor's forum.  That's probably why the OP is asking the question.

Hmm, I didn't see that.  I pulled up the online version of the SIM to check things, so if they did change the requirements, they haven't yet put it into the SIM.

[Divalent 106]

On 3/7/2019 at 10:56 PM, bill6870 said:

From the latest SIM currently on USPA's website. Clearly states 25 freefall skydives.

{snip} ...

Well, my Google foo must be weakening, as it apparently led me to the 2018 version.  So I stand corrected: it is "freefall jumps" now in the SIM (2019 version). 

 

[sfzombie 3]

On 3/11/2019 at 1:31 AM, Divalent said:

Well, my Google foo must be weakening, as it apparently led me to the 2018 version.  So I stand corrected: it is "freefall jumps" now in the SIM (2019 version). 

 

i just got my a license with a proficiency card that said 25 skydives but my logbook i got on my first jump in 1998 said 25 freefall jumps.  not sure about the sim and when it changed but it appears to have always been freefall, at least my book has it printed that way and it is listed as uspa fai license requirements.