ATC vs Freak 3?

[20kN 93]

I've been flying WS for the last 230 jumps or so. It's pretty much all I do at this point now. I started out with a S3 then moved on to an ATC. I am comfortable backflying, doing basic transisions and general all-around flying with my ATC. I've tried some front and back flips (more for stability recovery than to actually nail them). I've put myself into intentional, controlled flatspins and lots of quadruple barrel rolls for instability recovery practice. Overall I feel comfortable at a basic level in all aspects of basic flight in my ATC. As such, I was considering getting a Freak 3 but I wanted to know how much of a step up it is from the ATC. Are we talking a bit faster, or significantly faster with significantly more skill required to fly it? Visually it does not look much larger than the ATC when you lay one over the other, but I also know that there is a bit more to the science than just surface area.

Edited March 3, 2019 by 20kN

[birdynamnam 28]

they feel similar and out the door you will notice the glide improvement.It will feel "big on you" in the air, because the ATC is such a compact feel. Cloud surfing comes to a new level  At deployment time you will appreciate the significant increase in flarepower probably the thing you will love the most! From what you write you are good to go

[skow 6]

Pay also attention to exits from the plane. That means that Freak being more powerful can send you more easily into plane's stabiliser if you exit with improper body position.

I wouldn't expect the Freak to be faster than ATC, if sth than otherwise as bigger suit introduces more drag (e.g. my Swift 3 is much faster than Freak 2)

[Lukasz_Se 2]

5 hours ago, skow said:

I wouldn't expect the Freak to be faster than ATC, if sth than otherwise as bigger suit introduces more drag (e.g. my Swift 3 is much faster than Freak 2)

I guess there is something to it, Yury won advanced class during Tony suits Performance Class in ATC leaving Freaks and even a Colugo 3 behind him.

https://skyderby.ru/events/79

Ofcourse a lot depends on the pilot but I remember Amber kicking ass in her ATC in Speed competition last year. Anybody have jumped both ATC and Freak 2 with flysight enough times to compare the two?

Edited March 5, 2019 by Lukasz_Se

[birdynamnam 28]

2 hours ago, Lukasz_Se said:

I guess there is something to it, Yury won advanced class during Tony suits Performance Class in ATC leaving Freaks and even a Colugo 3 behind him.

https://skyderby.ru/events/79

Ofcourse a lot depends on the pilot but I remember Amber kicking ass in her ATC in Speed competition last year. Anybody have jumped both ATC and Freak 2 with flysight enough times to compare the two?

Guys.....  In the performance competition format, the speed discipline is flown mostly at GR at 1.5 or lower so suit sqft size is less important. A not so experienced pilot in a Colugo3 that really has not the best concept of how to fly performant or are a bit scared of pushing the suit, will not benefit from that suits greater range. A pilot in a smallish suit that knows how to and are going all in, will then make the win. I have measured with Flysight flying my ATC and Freak2. And pls remember when you do so, if the weather was not exactly the same, its only really the time data that can be compared as distance and speed is affected by the wind aloft. But my best guess is: Speed at GR 1.5; they are sort of the same. Time: They are close but the Freak has rougly 5-10% better score. Distance: The Freak is clearly better, like > 10% 

[skow 6]

If nothing has recently changed, then you need to fly all the disciplines in the same suit during performance competitions. That is why people fly speed in big suits (because gain in distance and time is worth "losing" a bit in speed).

However if we talk physics, wingsuits work pretty much in the same way as canopies - the bigger the size the bigger the drag.

Easy to check - trying to fly in WS and catch up somebody with no suit in head down.

[johnmatrix 21]

Or try following someone in a Onesie in a wingsuit.

[dogdoghowl 5]

I've flown the ATC perhaps 10 times and own a Freak 2. The Freak series is a natural evolution in terms of performance from the ATC (although chronologically the ATC was developed as a downsizing of the Freak concept). If you're comfortable in the ATC the Freak will not be a huge step up, however, you will notice the extra fabric. I have actually ordered an ATC 2 as while I love my Freak 2 and will be keeping it I found the ATC to be the most confidence inspiring suit for practicing new or more advanced manouveres. Despite a marginal reduction in surface area the ATC really reduces the stress levels associated with big suits. My advice would be to buy the Freak 3 if you want a big suit but to also keep the ATC. You can then apply what you practice in the ATC when transitioning to a Freak flight and you will also have the capability to fly with anyone in any size suit. Of the suits I've flown I think for skydiving having an ATC series and a Freak series is truly the best combination to cover the fun jumping spectrum. I've also found the Freak 2 to be a great suit for BASE. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by dogdoghowl

[meat.missile 25]

On 3/6/2019 at 2:34 AM, johnmatrix said:

Or try following someone in a Onesie in a wingsuit.

 

There is no way a onesie is going to outrun a freak. As for the comparison between the freak and atc, the freak will outrun the atc every time. The freak is just a faster suit in general. The ATC is a great suit because of its range and ability to fly with big suits and small suits. 

[birdynamnam 28]

A recent posting on statistics on performance comp results shows that ATC's scores marginally higher than Freak1-2's. Its not the suit, its the pilot, I know, still less experienced flyers would tend to be flying the ATC rather than the Freak1-2's, so I do find it interesting. In a PPC comp, the glide is more important than speed as time/distance scores require lift and glide. For XRW the ATC's clearly demonstrate as much lift capacity in the slow speed area as the Freak's.  

Been flying with a Freak3 pilot lately. I clearly see it has become alot faster than previous versions, so it is a moving target

[meat.missile 25]

9 hours ago, birdynamnam said:

A recent posting on statistics on performance comp results shows that ATC's scores marginally higher than Freak1-2's. Its not the suit, its the pilot, I know, still less experienced flyers would tend to be flying the ATC rather than the Freak1-2's, so I do find it interesting. In a PPC comp, the glide is more important than speed as time/distance scores require lift and glide. For XRW the ATC's clearly demonstrate as much lift capacity in the slow speed area as the Freak's.  

Been flying with a Freak3 pilot lately. I clearly see it has become alot faster than previous versions, so it is a moving target

It is also important when comparing suits for the pilot to be the same person. 

[birdynamnam 28]

10 hours ago, meat.missile said:

It is also important when comparing suits for the pilot to be the same person. 

The statistics are based on all PPC competitions to date and so it is probably as good as it gets

[timski 80]

FLY BEFORE YOU BUY!!!    Just demo the damn thing. http://arcusflight.ws/wingsuit-rental/ 

[birdynamnam 28]

18 minutes ago, timski said:

FLY BEFORE YOU BUY!!!    Just demo the damn thing. http://arcusflight.ws/wingsuit-rental/ 

can you demo for free?

[timski 80]

1 minute ago, birdynamnam said:

can you demo for free?

You can, if you ask the right guy nicely. insert winky face. (that guy would be located here:https://squirrel.ws/

[timski 80]

It may help that I've purchased three new suits from them in the past... But I digress. WINGSUIT! 

[birdynamnam 28]

20 minutes ago, timski said:

You can, if you ask the right guy nicely. insert winky face. (that guy would be located here:https://squirrel.ws/

oh I just thought you would provide that service to folks since you linked to that rental website

[timski 80]

6 hours ago, birdynamnam said:

oh I just thought you would provide that service to folks since you linked to that rental website

the rental service I've provided ALSO provides canopies and expert coaching... 

[skow 6]

23 hours ago, birdynamnam said:

The statistics are based on all PPC competitions to date and so it is probably as good as it gets

Statistically we all have one boob and one testicle

I may be wrong, but I have a feeling that people tend to fly bigger suits so there may not be enough data about smaller ones.

[birdynamnam 28]

1 hour ago, skow said:

Statistically we all have one boob and one testicle

I may be wrong, but I have a feeling that people tend to fly bigger suits so there may not be enough data about smaller ones.

its what we have. Everything else is just different opinions

[skow 6]

Maybe during next weekend I could do a comparison based on flysight data between Swift3 and Freak2. Those are same generation suits and build for and flown by the same person so could give some answers.vBut I don't own an ATC.