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Green New Deal

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9 minutes ago, DJL said:

Then let's not do socialism but let's take care of:

“Providing all people of the United States with — (i) high-quality health care; (ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing; (iii) economic security; and (iv) access to clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and nature.” 

“Providing resources, training, and high-quality education, including higher education, to all people of the United States.” 

Socialism as a idea that limits quality of living is already proven to be delinquent. Its peddled to the partially educated by right wing dog whistlers.

Let the facts speak for themselves such that those with open minds can tune out the noise :

World Happiness Report

and for the pseudo-educated they can revel in this:

These are the 10 best countries in the world in 2019

 

 

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34 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

There is nothing high quality about living in Socialism. History has proven this.

Lame attempt at deflection by  name-calling.  However, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands (among others) prove your statement wrong.

So how would you choose which AMERICAN CITIZENS to deny the services listed?  Which Americans should be denied a high quality education, clean water, or a secure retirement, for example.  Please be specific.

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30 minutes ago, DJL said:

Then let's not do socialism but let's take care of:

“Providing all people of the United States with — (i) high-quality health care; (ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing; (iii) economic security; and (iv) access to clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and nature.” 

“Providing resources, training, and high-quality education, including higher education, to all people of the United States.” 

Yeah well, that's nice and all, but the problem always comes down to, who pays for all that? You eventually run out of money.

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11 minutes ago, kallend said:

Lame attempt at deflection by  name-calling.  However, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands (among others) prove your statement wrong.

So how would you choose which AMERICAN CITIZENS to deny the services listed?  Which Americans should be denied a high quality education, clean water, or a secure retirement, for example.  Please be specific.

Name-calling? Where in my post did I do that?

My point remains... those countries may be doing well. But it won't last. Just wait....

Venezuela was once the wealthiest South American country. Now its a shithole where people ended up eating their pets and inflation shot up to a million percent.

Greece collapsed a few years ago and the European union had to bail them out, did they not?

Nothing is free or guaranteed, except death and taxes.

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13 minutes ago, kallend said:

Lame attempt at deflection by  name-calling.  However, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands (among others) prove your statement wrong.

So how would you choose which AMERICAN CITIZENS to deny the services listed?  Which Americans should be denied a high quality education, clean water, or a secure retirement, for example.  Please be specific.

Word on the FOX street is that programs such as this can't be paid for. That all the countries with happy and well cared for citizens will go broke!

Debt/GDP   USA  = 105.4

Sweden                =40.6

Norway                 =36.2

Denmark              =36.4

Netherlands         =56.7

EU                       =81.6

Definition Debt-To-GDP Ratio

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12 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

 

Venezuela was once the wealthiest South American country. Now its a shithole where people ended up eating their pets and inflation shot up to a million percent.

Right after it became an authoritarian kleptocratic dictatorship.  Try keeping to the point.

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1 hour ago, BillyVance said:

There is nothing high quality about living in Socialism. History has proven this.

So our military is not "high quality?"  OK, I guess if you believe that.

Our roads - 99% socialist - are not "high quality?"  Do you refuse to use them, so you don't have to live in socialism? 

And you're a skydiver.  You must be miserable having to skydive within airspace controlled by the socialist ATC, with pilots and planes certified by the socialist FAA, and using parachutes maintained under the same socialist organization.

The reason the US works as well as it does is because we pick and choose which systems to use.  Consumer economy?  Capitalism.  Military, roads, ATC?  Socialist.  National parks?  Communist.  We avoid the abuses of any pure -ism by using a mix, with each used where it works the best.

BTW we're not even the most capitalist country out there.  On pretty much every ranking of countries by economic freedom, Hong Kong leads the pack.  In terms of pure capitalism, Germany wins.

http://blog.peerform.com/the-five-most-capitalistic-countries-in-the-world/

https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1212/the-5-most-economically-free-countries-in-the-world.aspx

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/capitalist-countries/

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1 hour ago, BillyVance said:

Yeah well, that's nice and all, but the problem always comes down to, who pays for all that? You eventually run out of money.

You set spending priorities, make a budget and set taxes accordingly.  High school math is all you need to be able to figure that out.

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2 minutes ago, billvon said:

So our military is not "high quality?"  OK, I guess if you believe that.

Our roads - 99% socialist - are not "high quality?"  Do you refuse to use them, so you don't have to live in socialism? 

And you're a skydiver.  You must be miserable having to skydive within airspace controlled by the socialist ATC, with pilots and planes certified by the socialist FAA, and using parachutes maintained under the same socialist organization.

The reason the US works as well as it does is because we pick and choose which systems to use.  Consumer economy?  Capitalism.  Military, roads, ATC?  Socialist.  National parks?  Communist.  We avoid the abuses of any pure -ism by using a mix, with each used where it works the best.

BTW we're not even the most capitalist country out there.  On pretty much every ranking of countries by economic freedom, Hong Kong leads the pack.  In terms of pure capitalism, Germany wins.

http://blog.peerform.com/the-five-most-capitalistic-countries-in-the-world/

https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1212/the-5-most-economically-free-countries-in-the-world.aspx

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/capitalist-countries/

This is an excellent post. I personally like a concept laid out but also independent supporting facts cited to support such assertions.

The only other concept I would ad is friendliness for business.

  Open for Business

These market-oriented countries are a haven for capitalists and corporations.

If a bipartisan committee was to set about modelling statutes in taxation and law. Studying the aforementioned links would be the place to start.

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55 minutes ago, kallend said:

Right after it became an authoritarian kleptocratic dictatorship.  Try keeping to the point.

You beat me to it.Furthermore that is right on the money, if you'all will pardon the pun. So I will tackle Greece.

" What we do know is that, according to the OECD, in 2010 the Greek government collected 70.3bn euros ($93.1bn), or 34% of the country's total gross domestic product (GDP) - slightly below the EU average of 38.5%. ...

In part this is because Greece has a large "shadow economy" - earning money without paying income tax, or perhaps avoiding paying VAT.

You might assume that businesses in the construction industry or tourism might be the main culprits when it comes to tax evasion, but a report published earlier this year by a group of US academics found that the primary tax-evading industries in Greece included medicine, law, engineering, and the media.

A study quoted by the IMF suggests that between 1999 and 2010 the shadow economy in Greece made up 27% of the country's GDP - compared to an average of 20.2% in other rich countries.

That means that nearly one in four euros that potentially could be taxed in the country's economy simply weren't declared to the authorities, and the Greek government missed out on approximately 28bn euros ($31bn) of additional revenue each year....

In 2011, an OECD survey ranked Greece as one of the worst rich countries in the world at collecting VAT receipts and social security payments. "

Did Greeks fail to pay 89.5% of taxes?

Greek Debt Crisis Explained

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12 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

You beat me to it.Furthermore that is right on the money, if you'all will pardon the pun. So I will tackle Greece.

. . . .

He STILL hasn't told us to which AMERICAN CITIZENS he would deny education, access to clean water, and other "socialist" benefits.

 

I believe he lives in Alabama, which is one of the bigger TAKER states.

Edited by kallend

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On 2/11/2019 at 9:49 AM, Phil1111 said:

Pourquoi?

From Wiki:
"The 1990s were remembered as a time of strong economic growth, steady job creation, low inflation, rising productivity, economic boom, and a surging stock market that resulted from a combination of rapid technological changes and sound central monetary policy.

The 1990s economic boom in the United States was an extended period of economic prosperity, during which GDP increased continuously for almost ten years (the longest recorded expansion in the history of the United States)"

 

I completely agree with that statement.  That's almost exactly how I remembered it.

The only reason unemployment wasn't lower was due to the discovery of internet porn. . .

 

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On 2/11/2019 at 11:41 AM, billvon said:
Quote

A kid could walk down the street and easily find at least 3 business willing to pay $10 bucks an hour for 40+ hours. 

The grass was always greener when you were a kid.  I remember that time as well; my sisters had just graduated from college and couldn't find jobs due to the recession.

I doubt that lasted very long.

By the time Clinton took office the recovery was well on it's it way.   It seemed like a good time for younger people and the lower class to live comfortably and independent while still having a good opportunity to save and get ahead in life.
It's been very difficult for those groups of people to do that in the last 15 years or so.  Among other factors, the average rent has almost doubled while the federal minimum wage only increased from around $5+ to $7 and some change.  Maybe the increased minimum wage in some states will change all that.

 

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16 minutes ago, Coreece said:

From Wiki:
"The 1990s were remembered as a time of strong economic growth, steady job creation, low inflation, rising productivity, economic boom, and a surging stock market that resulted from a combination of rapid technological changes and sound central monetary policy.

The 1990s economic boom in the United States was an extended period of economic prosperity, during which GDP increased continuously for almost ten years (the longest recorded expansion in the history of the United States)"

 

I completely agree with that statement.  That's almost exactly how I remembered it.

The only reason unemployment wasn't lower was due to the discovery of internet porn. . .

 

You do remember who the president was during most of the 90's don't you? Hint Billary!

You do remember that a recession in 90-91 cost Bush the election. Furthermore recovery typically follows from recessions. In 1993 he instituted significant tax increases upon upper income earners.In addition he chopped spending. Earned Income Tax Credit, Head Start, same president.

Oh well. you tried.

Edited by Phil1111

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4 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:
19 minutes ago, Coreece said:

From Wiki:
"The 1990s were remembered as a time of strong economic growth, steady job creation, low inflation, rising productivity, economic boom, and a surging stock market that resulted from a combination of rapid technological changes and sound central monetary policy.

The 1990s economic boom in the United States was an extended period of economic prosperity, during which GDP increased continuously for almost ten years (the longest recorded expansion in the history of the United States)"

 

I completely agree with that statement.  That's almost exactly how I remembered it.

The only reason unemployment wasn't lower was due to the discovery of internet porn. . .

 

You do remember who the president was during most of the 90's don't you? Hint Billary!

Yes of course.  I even mentioned in in my last reply to Bill.

 

5 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

You do remember that a recession in 90-91 cost Bush the election. Furthermore recovery typically follows from recessions. In 1993 in instituted significant tax increases upon upper income earners.In addition he chopped spending. Earned Income Tax Credit, Head Start, same president.

Oh well. you tried. 

Dude, I was raised in a Detroit city by blue collar democrats.  Believe it or not, I'm more of a left leaning moderate.  So please stop pretending you know me so well.

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3 hours ago, Coreece said:

Yes of course.  I even mentioned in in my last reply to Bill.

 

Dude, I was raised in a Detroit city by blue collar democrats.  Believe it or not, I'm more of a left leaning moderate.  So please stop pretending you know me so well.

I must have mixed up somebody else's orange nose for you. Sorry dude!

Such an insult deserves an appropriate apology.

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3 minutes ago, BillyVance said:

Aren't they getting overrun with Muslim immigrants? It's not going to end well.

Eh, we've been overrun with British, German, Dutch, Irish, Italian, Chinese, Indian and Arab immigrants.  We've also been overrun by Catholic, Protestant, Muslim and Hindu immigrants.  And each time the doomsayers of the time predicted TEOTWAWKI.  Each time it turned out just fine.

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