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nachofly99

tandem reserve

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thanks for reply, just curiosity, because I happened to see sigma container with vector/pd reserve d.o.m. 1987, without knowing how many times has been used  (at least one known of  me) because the owner don't wanna show canopy log book , and at the same time see the tandem system  In question  used with full loads or more ..

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Depending upon the system there are, in fact a limit on component age and/or usage.

Strong Enterprise

http://www.strongparachutes.com/library/Documentation/Tandem/Recertification Requirements.pdf

UPT

https://uptvector.com/tandem-rigging/   (although the link appears to be broken)

These detail the service life and usage limits before being put back into service.   

The container should have a packing data card - this is where you should find the data.   If the DZO doesn't have the card in the rig - sounds like something shady going on.  They can always maintain a copy of the card so if it gets lost a rig history is preserved.     How are you as an instructor meant to check if the reserve is in-date prior to jumping it. if there is no packing card present?

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Wow, I checked the Sigma manual, and they do have recommended lifespans. I guess I never even read that part.

"Reserve canopy is limited to 25 uses, 40 pack jobs or 20 years in service, whichever comes first."

Although, it does say "recommended", and I imagine most dropzones are gonna take some liberties there, which I wouldn't lose much confidence about. However, if you think the owner is trying to hide information from you, then yes I would feel very uncomfortable working for them.

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Actually, the part that talks about reserves doesn't seem to fall under "recommended" lifespan.

"Once a component limit has been reached, it is no longer certified for use. If further use is intended, it must be returned to the manufacturer for possible recertification."
 
The word "must" is very important here.
 

"Reserve canopy is limited to 25 uses, 40 pack jobs or 20 years in service, whichever comes first.

Reserve Pilot Chute limited to 25 uses.

R.S.L and Skyhook limited to 25 uses."

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2 hours ago, skytribe said:

Depending upon the system there are, in fact a limit on component age and/or usage.

Strong Enterprise

http://www.strongparachutes.com/library/Documentation/Tandem/Recertification Requirements.pdf

UPT

https://uptvector.com/tandem-rigging/   (although the link appears to be broken)

These detail the service life and usage limits before being put back into service.   

The container should have a packing data card - this is where you should find the data.   If the DZO doesn't have the card in the rig - sounds like something shady going on.  They can always maintain a copy of the card so if it gets lost a rig history is preserved.     How are you as an instructor meant to check if the reserve is in-date prior to jumping it. if there is no packing card present?

excuse me I personally would like to know how many T-I or T-M, make checks about reserve paccking card, I see many jumps where pre checks are optional on the ground as in plane and in free fall too, gear on and let's go .. 

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14 hours ago, nachofly99 said:

excuse me I personally would like to know how many T-I or T-M, make checks about reserve paccking card, I see many jumps where pre checks are optional on the ground as in plane and in free fall too, gear on and let's go .. 

At my home DZ I don't every jump, but I know when all of the rigs get repacked, and we have a good handle on maintenance and rigging.

If I go to a different DZ to lend a hand for the weekend, or over the winter, I take the time to check.

As far as lack of gear checks on the ground, and handle checks... fuck that. It is their ass and their students ass on the line, don't follow their bad example. It is a really negligent and frankly stupid.

I have caught things numerous times doing gear-checks, packers aren't infallible and there are even more ways you can mess up packing and closing a tandem rig. I have seen one come back from a major rigging loft with the 3-rigs all FUBAR. Check your gear, your life and your students life is depending on it. 

Especially as a new TI, don't let anyone rush you. They aren't going to be the ones listed in the incident report.

 

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Instructors should be doing gear checks on their equipment and verifying the student is correctly harnessed and briefed. 

Passing the buck to someone else when something goes wrong doesn't cut it.   

The packing card is right under the AAD on our DZ Strong rigs.   There is also a simple card saying when the next repack is due.   Sure, the DZ makes sure things which are out of date (which is incredibly rare as they like their stuff ready) are not on the flight line but they are not trying to hide anything either by not having packing data cards in the rigs.

So to answer your question - all the instructors at my DZ all instructors are required to do their gear checks for every single jump and can clearly see when the reserve will be out of date when they turn the AAD on or verify it is turned on prior to jumping the gear.   They are also responsible for checking their student harness irrespective of who put the harness on the student.

If you not checking your gear and the student you're jumping with then you are not doing it correctly.   

This thread asked a question on the life of tandem components and the answer was given.  

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in this way everithing is simple and safetly, thank you for clarifying a logical concept, I do not want to raise  polemics , unfortunately I was in the wrong places, but my properly line has cost me lose more than one job place.

thank you all for reading and replying

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Better un-employed than dead.

Manufacturers hold TIs responsible for reserves being in date. If the rig owner refuses to show you the packing data card .... refuse to jump that rig.

Some DZs prefer to keep PDC in a filing cabinet ..... fine ..... but they should still be available to TIs.

If anyone tries to rush your pre-flight gear checks .... tell them to “mellow out!”

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(edited)

Gear checks are NEVER optional. 15K tandems, 20 tandem reserve rides, 11 different work locations, rigging consistently since 1985. NEVER assume the gear is in good order. Working knowledge of the DZ gear safety and functionality is  basic responsibility.  No one has ever questioned this attitude or the common sense reasoning. Slack and lazy don’t care for themselves and others. Your personal safety is equally as important as the customer/student/passenger. Equipment life and standards are all recommended. Generally in each jurisdiction there is a default adoption of manufacturer recommendations along with FAA standards. Airworthiness is an opinion as far as inspection. My attitude towards equipment life is largely influenced by a combination of use, age (which relates largely to UV exposure), original design and the state of current equipment design and expected performance. 25 years on a reserve is about time to retire it. At the very least performance and design has significantly improved to produce better and essentially safer products. I have a similar attitude with harness/containers. Recommendations are just that. They aren’t referred to as design limits unless specifically stated.

Edited by richwilk

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