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billvon

Trump administration targeted children

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When it was revealed that the Trump administration had ordered refugee children separated from their parents and put in cages, there was a quick spate of denials, followed by the usual "OK we did it but Obama did it first" claims.  Now Trump is claiming there is a "humanitarian crisis" at the border that the democrats caused.

NBC has recently discovered the memos that the Trump administration used to justify the policy of separation.  It also discussed simply denying their right to a hearing so they could be deported more quickly without reuniting them.  It was felt that by attacking families in this way, the media would report on it, and parents would be discouraged and would not try to apply for asylum.

So there was a humanitarian crisis at the border all along - and for Trump, that was a feature, not a bug.  It was what he planned for.

From NBC News:

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WASHINGTON — Trump administration officials weighed speeding up the deportation of migrant children by denying them their legal right to asylum hearings after separating them from their parents, according to comments on a late 2017 draft of what became the administration's family separation policy obtained by NBC News.

The draft also shows officials wanted to specifically target parents in migrant families for increased prosecutions, contradicting the administration's previous statements. In June, Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said the administration did "not have a policy of separating families at the border" but was simply enforcing existing law.

The authors noted that the "increase in prosecutions would be reported by the media and it would have a substantial deterrent effect." . . .


In the draft memo, called "Policy Options to Respond to Border Surge of Illegal Immigration" and dated Dec. 16, 2017, officials from the Departments of Justice and Homeland Security lay out a blueprint of options, some of which were later implemented and others that have not yet been put into effect.

At the time, the number of undocumented immigrants seeking to cross the southern border was near historic monthly lows: 40,519 in December 2017, compared to 58,379 the same month the year prior.

The document was circulated between high level officials at DHS and the Justice Department, at least one of whom was instrumental in writing the first iteration of the administration's travel ban.

The plan, and the comments written in the margins, provide a window into the policy discussion thinking at the time, how far officials were willing to go to deter families seeking asylum and what they may still be considering.

In one comment, the Justice Department official suggests that Customs and Border Protection could see that children who have been separated from their parents would be denied an asylum hearing before an immigration judge, which is typically awarded to children who arrive at the border alone.

Instead, the entire family would be given an order of "expedited removal" and then separated, placing the child in the care of HHS in U.S. Marshall's custody while both await deportation.

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Given the latest reporting we’ve seen on Trump,  given the latest buzz feed reporting that the national media with orgasmic on , I don’t know that I believe anything from any mainstream sites. And even if some of the details are true you got a wonder if the context regarding your point means the damn thing.

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6 minutes ago, rushmc said:

Given the latest reporting we’ve seen on Trump,  given the latest buzz feed reporting that the national media with orgasmic on , I don’t know that I believe anything from any mainstream sites. And even if some of the details are true you got a wonder if the context regarding your point means the damn thing.

You can personally review the files and memos if you doubt their authenticity.

 

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5688664-Merkleydocs2.html

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Facts? He doesn't care about those.

 

And, in addition to the clear motives behind the actions, there's a new report that DHS doesn't know how many children were taken from their parents. The real number may be 'thousands higher' than the reported 2737. The real number is not and may never be known.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/us/family-separation-trump-administration-migrants.html

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So  Kirstjen Nielsen testified in front of the House Homeland Security Committee today.  And a few choice things that came out of her mouth included:

"We don’t use cages for children . .  To my knowledge, [Customs and Border Protection] never purposefully put a child in a cage if you mean a cage like this" [making a box with her hands]

But I have seen them in the cages, said one of the people on the panel.

"They’re not cages . . .[kids have room] to sit, to stand, to lay down."  So if the cage is at least 6x6x6 (well, 4x4x4 for a kid, perhaps) then they are "not cages" per Nielsen.  They are "areas of the border facility that are carved out for the safety and protection of those that remain there while they’re being processed."

It would be interesting to see how long Nielsen would last in a 6x6x6 "area of a facility carved out for her safety and protection."

Another committee member asked her how many children had died there.  "So far this year we’ve had three,” she said.  "So far" - how reassuring.

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(edited)
21 hours ago, billvon said:

"We don’t use cages for children . .  To my knowledge, [Customs and Border Protection] never purposefully put a child in a cage if you mean a cage like this" [making a box with her hands]

But I have seen them in the cages, said one of the people on the panel.

"They’re not cages . . .[kids have room] to sit, to stand, to lay down."  So if the cage is at least 6x6x6 (well, 4x4x4 for a kid, perhaps) then they are "not cages" per Nielsen.  They are "areas of the border facility that are carved out for the safety and protection of those that remain there while they’re being processed."

The pictures shown as the proof of cages that I've seen are chain link enclosures that are fairly large.  I would call a 6x6x6 a cage but is that what they're doing?

Edit to add link:  https://www.google.com/search?q=border+cages&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwistNKUs_DgAhXFqlkKHZCOD5EQsAR6BAgFEAE&biw=1366&bih=663

That's just a "border cages" search and again, chain link enclosures inside of a building.  They do need to be held in areas in which they can't just run out an exit door and I find these to be acceptable.  The only cages shown in those pictures are from people who have set up an actual cage to take a picture to protest "cages".

Edited by DJL

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1 hour ago, DJL said:

The pictures shown as the proof of cages that I've seen are chain link enclosures that are fairly large.  I would call a 6x6x6 a cage but is that what they're doing?

All the cages I've seen are bigger than that.  (With some being very crowded.)  But I find it very troubling that the head of Homeland Security is defending herself by saying that she confines kids in a space big enough "to sit, to stand, to lay down."  That is a very low standard.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, billvon said:

All the cages I've seen are bigger than that.  (With some being very crowded.)  But I find it very troubling that the head of Homeland Security is defending herself by saying that she confines kids in a space big enough "to sit, to stand, to lay down."  That is a very low standard.

The "shouting at the radio" moment I'm having with this is to say that she needs to tell them that with her current funding she can't exactly house them in the local Ramada and if those same Senators/Representatives are so flummoxed then let's talk about the DHS and CBP budgets.

Edit: In some news reports I've read that the CBP agents are very glad that this is an issue because it's a laughably poor way to do their job but it's all they have money for.

Edited by DJL

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1 hour ago, DJL said:

 . . . that with her current funding she can't exactly house . . .

Hi DJL,

IMO this is what is wrong with Congress.  They pass some resolution, including funding, so that they can go back home & campaign on how they are helping whatever.  Then when additional funds are needed to keep the program going, they cut the funding & brag how they have saved everyone tax money.

IMO as 2-faced as you can get.

Jerry Baumchen

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11 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

IMO as 2-faced as you can get.

Definitely, as if the Dems involved in this are interested in anything more that a political device to hit Trump's people over the head with.  This is a good issue to be made public as it exemplifies the lack of funding at the border.  You simply aren't going to have CBP agents who give a shit while risking their lives to stop drugs and criminal activities if they're not given the tools to do their job.

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