Mandatory DNA test for male healthcare workers

[rushmc 18]

yoink

*********Oooh.

It’s an awful crime but I don’t think anyone should be forced to provide a DNA sample unless there’s reasonable evidence that makes them a suspect. My gut feeling is that it’s probably unconstitutional.
They should be asked to, sure, but I’m struggling with the mandatory part.

My DNA is one of the few things I’m really really protective and paranoid over.

I agree. Welcome to the brave now world. Guilty until proven innocent.

Wow! What a juxtaposition. you guys don't say this one when it's some Republicans who has gotten in trouble with no evidence!

hYour boyfriend is the subject of an investigation but has not has his constitutional rights violated. If his lawyers thought
for a second they had been it would have been a talking point way before now. That's the way law works. Try reading up on it.

This however, is DEFINITELY a bunch of innocent people being forced top provide the only thing in the world that identifies them as them against their will. It's a completely different scenario... but you don't care about that, because you're a troll, and everything comes down to sucking off Donald Trump and scoring meaning less internet points.

Do us all a favor and keep your political comments to the appropriate threads or fuck off.

Hiphopcrisy drips off you as if somebody threw a gallon of honey on you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[gowlerk 1,905]

Quote

Hiphopcrisy drips off you as if somebody threw a gallon of honey on you

Hip Hop Crisy, excellent Marc. You've outdone yourself as the champion with that one.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

billvon

>Considering a judge signed the warrants, you are clearly wrong.

From the story in the NYT: "It was not clear how many male employees or others the police would obtain DNA from to be tested."

From the CNN link in OP:

Quote

Detectives have asked men at the Hacienda HealthCare facility in Phoenix to give buccal swabs, Thompson said. Investigators got court orders for those who didn't voluntarily give samples.

Like I said, you are clearly wrong.

[billvon 2,395]

Your one warning. Cut it out. If he gets to you, just stop reading/replying to his posts.

[rushmc 18]

gowlerk

Quote

Hiphopcrisy drips off you as if somebody threw a gallon of honey on you

Hip Hop Crisy, excellent Marc. You've outdone yourself as the champion with that one.

Can't refute it can you...

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jclalor 12]

billvon

>Why did it take the family until after the child was delivered to start to complain about
>the patient being pregnant? Why wasn't this investigation started immediately upon
>learning of her condition?

Per the story I read, no one knew she was pregnant until she went into labor. (It's not unusual for pregnancy to be missed in someone who is morbidly obese, although I don't know if that's the case here.)

It’s usually rare after ten years in a vegetative state to remain obese. All calories are going in through a tube and are easily controled. Sometimes vegetative patients can end up with weird body shapes.

The fact that she stopped menstrating could easily go unnoticed, in a typical facility, they have several nursing aids providing personal care, and none of them are keeping track of that type of thing.

I'd start asking for volunteers, starting with those who work nocs. I can’t see how this type of thing could happen during normal hours.

[yoink 321]

rushmc

***

Quote

Hiphopcrisy drips off you as if somebody threw a gallon of honey on you

Hip Hop Crisy, excellent Marc. You've outdone yourself as the champion with that one.

Can't refute it can you...

I DID refute it. With an argument that explains that a background investigation of a single individual based is not the same as wholesale constitutional personal violations.
But you ignored all that and went straight to ‘hiphopcrasy’... because you’re a Troll.

And somehow I’M the one in trouble despite you CONTINUALLY not making any points of substance.



Bill, your ‘don’t read what the troll posts’ answer always has been, and always will be, total bullshit. I’m rapidly approaching the point where it’s not worth posting here.

[Iago 8]

yoink

******

Quote

Hiphopcrisy drips off you as if somebody threw a gallon of honey on you

Hip Hop Crisy, excellent Marc. You've outdone yourself as the champion with that one.

Can't refute it can you...

I DID refute it. With an argument that explains that a background investigation of a single individual based is not the same as wholesale constitutional personal violations.
But you ignored all that and went straight to ‘hiphopcrasy’... because you’re a Troll.

And somehow I’M the one in trouble despite you CONTINUALLY not making any points of substance.



Bill, your ‘don’t read what the troll posts’ answer always has been, and always will be, total bullshit. I’m rapidly approaching the point where it’s not worth posting here.

Yep, next thing you know you’ll get a ban for telling someone to suck themselves AFTER they pop off that you obviously hate women that aren’t making you sandwiches and brown people, love guns that you’ve never owned, and various other things that are quite slanderous personal attacks not relevant to discussion.

That might be the reason why there are really only about 50 people that actually sticking their heads in here.

Confirmed cynical sarcastic bastard since 2003

[headoverheels 291]

JerryBaumchen

I've had Ancestry.com check my DNA. I do not know what they may have done with it.

Along that line (DNA services)

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/wedding-dj-killed-raped-teacher-182956993.html

and it wasn't even his DNA, it was his half-sister's.

[wmw999 2,120]

Quote

Bill, your ‘don’t read what the troll posts’ answer always has been, and always will be, total bullshit. I’m rapidly approaching the point where it’s not worth posting here.

It's actually gotten easier to ignore the trolling with a little practice. The other thing (and I need to do more of it) is to contribute more posts that are worth reading. It's a much better format than FB for actual discussion, so it should be possible.

Back to the OP: I've heard the same thing that jclalor knows from experience, that long-term vegetative people are maintained at a normal or slightly below-normal body weight. If nothing else, it makes them less prone to pressure sores, and makes them easier to move around the bed for their care.

I find it difficult to understand how the staff didn't pick up on a pregnancy, at least in the last couple of months. It was probably a small baby, because she wasn't being fed additional calories to support a pregnancy, and not everyone shows equally. With a deep, wide, there's a lot of room for baby.

I'd imagine too that after 10 years, the number of family visitors is down, so that they wouldn't notice. But the story I read didn't say anything about frequency of family visitors.

But as far as the constitutional aspect of mandatory DNA testing, without its being part of the employment agreement, it's hard. On the other hand, Arizona is a right-to-work state; the employer has a lot of rights, too, and can probably impose the DNA requirement as a part of continued employment.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[gowlerk 1,905]

Quote

Bill, your ‘don’t read what the troll posts’ answer always has been, and always will be, total bullshit. I’m rapidly approaching the point where it’s not worth posting here.

I've been watching a couple people get angry at Marc and loose their cool. I have not seen Marc loose his cool, he just makes unsupportable arguments. This is an online forum. That means you have plenty of time to think about it before you hit send. It also means that you can choose to ignore people who don't make sense. Or you can send rude angry words that don't belong here and make the mod go through the trouble of replying to you.

In the end if you can't behave it is on you. It is not on Marc.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

SkyDekker

***>What if only 20 males are found to be most likely to have had access, with limited
>opportunity for other males.

Now you're getting closer. If you could narrow down that pool of 20 to a more limited set (i.e. people who were there exactly 9 months ago, people who have a history of assault, people who have the same eye color as the infant) then you'd likely get that court order.

But again, you have to have more than "they potentially had access."

Considering a judge signed the warrants, you are clearly wrong. I will be happy to revisit when more information becomes available.

Judges make mistakes. That's what appellate courts are for. All the way up to the Supreme Court.

In this particular case, I think the judge is way out of line.

This is far more of a 'fishing expedition' than a 'search based on probable cause.'

There needs to be more (a lot more) than 'he had access' to justify a search warrant.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Phil1111 910]

wolfriverjoe

******>What if only 20 males are found to be most likely to have had access, with limited
>opportunity for other males.

Now you're getting closer. If you could narrow down that pool of 20 to a more limited set (i.e. people who were there exactly 9 months ago, people who have a history of assault, people who have the same eye color as the infant) then you'd likely get that court order.

But again, you have to have more than "they potentially had access."

Considering a judge signed the warrants, you are clearly wrong. I will be happy to revisit when more information becomes available.

Judges make mistakes. That's what appellate courts are for. All the way up to the Supreme Court.

In this particular case, I think the judge is way out of line.

This is far more of a 'fishing expedition' than a 'search based on probable cause.'

There needs to be more (a lot more) than 'he had access' to justify a search warrant.

Agree. Don't forget there is the entire DNA genealogy analysis.

Crime solvers embraced genetic genealogy
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/genetic-genealogy-forensics-top-science-stories-2018-yir

IMO if a single DNA sample is available, within a couple years. All LE will need is a list of names of potential suspects. Then go directly to the database.

[DJL 232]

Quote

Judges make mistakes. That's what appellate courts are for. All the way up to the Supreme Court.

In this particular case, I think the judge is way out of line.

This is far more of a 'fishing expedition' than a 'search based on probable cause.'

There needs to be more (a lot more) than 'he had access' to justify a search warrant.

I think we'll see the judge lightly reprimanded for this and this case becoming a precedent. Yes, judges make mistakes and get emotional and get political.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,395]

>Judges make mistakes. That's what appellate courts are for. All the way up to the
>Supreme Court. In this particular case, I think the judge is way out of line.

Agreed, with the caveat that we don't know the whole story yet - specifically how they limited the pool of people they demanded DNA from.

[DJL 232]

billvon

>Judges make mistakes. That's what appellate courts are for. All the way up to the
>Supreme Court. In this particular case, I think the judge is way out of line.

Agreed, with the caveat that we don't know the whole story yet - specifically how they limited the pool of people they demanded DNA from.

They said in the above article (or I read it elsewhere) that it was limited to those who didn't provide it voluntarily. That still doesn't speak to whether it was only employees or also visitors, contractors, vendors or direct family members.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DJL 232]

One day this kid is going to find out that he's the offspring of a rapist and a comatose mother. There's no hiding this news from him forever.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[yoink 321]

DJL

***>Judges make mistakes. That's what appellate courts are for. All the way up to the
>Supreme Court. In this particular case, I think the judge is way out of line.

Agreed, with the caveat that we don't know the whole story yet - specifically how they limited the pool of people they demanded DNA from.

They said in the above article (or I read it elsewhere) that it was limited to those who didn't provide it voluntarily. That still doesn't speak to whether it was only employees or also visitors, contractors, vendors or direct family members.

‘It’s only mandatory if you don’t do it voluntarily’?

Yeah. That seems legit.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

DJL

***>Judges make mistakes. That's what appellate courts are for. All the way up to the
>Supreme Court. In this particular case, I think the judge is way out of line.

Agreed, with the caveat that we don't know the whole story yet - specifically how they limited the pool of people they demanded DNA from.

They said in the above article (or I read it elsewhere) that it was limited to those who didn't provide it voluntarily. That still doesn't speak to whether it was only employees or also visitors, contractors, vendors or direct family members.

The CNN article OP linked really is quite clear. it pertains to male staff who have not given their DNA voluntarily. What isn't clear is how many people this really is about, both voluntary and ordered group.

To the poster who said judges make mistakes: I fully agree, hence why I mentioned I would be happy to revisit once more information becomes available, such as an appeal.

[TriGirl 268]

DJL

One day this kid is going to find out that he's the offspring of a rapist and a comatose mother. There's no hiding this news from him forever.

The article said the family is cool with keeping the child -- he's even "wanted." That just adds to my suspicion that they may have wanted him enough to do something to lead to his creation.

So at the end of the story, he may not be the offspring of a rapist. The violators could be his own extended family.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[DJL 232]

TriGirl

***One day this kid is going to find out that he's the offspring of a rapist and a comatose mother. There's no hiding this news from him forever.

The article said the family is cool with keeping the child -- he's even "wanted." That just adds to my suspicion that they may have wanted him enough to do something to lead to his creation.

So at the end of the story, he may not be the offspring of a rapist. The violators could be his own extended family.

I took that to mean they were going to raise him as a family member but I admit I have a concern that there's something going on I don't even want to think about.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[gowlerk 1,905]

Quote

So at the end of the story, he may not be the offspring of a rapist.

Excuse me, how could that not be rape? And what family would not want to keep the child?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,395]

>So at the end of the story, he may not be the offspring of a rapist. The violators could be his
>own extended family.

In which case the violator would be both, no?

In any case, another good argument to have a stronger case than "workers had access" before mandating DNA testing.

[gowlerk 1,905]

An account of the pandemonium at the time of the birth.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/11/us/arizona-vegetative-state-birth-911-call/index.html

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[jclalor 12]

Wow!!! 911 operator doesn’t know what an ambu bag is?