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RonD1120

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>I don't think diversity for diversity's sake is always necessarily a good thing.

I agree. Employing the bad parts of a culture makes no sense. Rejecting all parts of another culture because that's a "liberal thing" makes no sense either.

>We, and I mean the western world have a certain way of doing things which has made
>our culture the dominant one.

And yet we use Arabic, not Roman, numbers.

>We also have certain values in our society which are non-negotiable(Equality of Man and
>woman, Basic Human Rights etc.) Bringing in lots of people from cultures that do not
>share these values and ways of doing things leads to conflict.

I'd say that bringing in people from other cultures helped CREATE those values. We base much of our law on English philosophical principles.

And even then, we shouldn't toot our own horn too loudly there. The US was one of the last countries to ban slavery, for example.

>this is especially true if diversity is increased very quickly and against the wishes of a lot
>of the native population. If anybody could give me an example that states the
>opposite I'd be very interested.

The legalization of interracial marriage. When that case was decided by the US Supreme Court, most of the country opposed it.

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RonD1120


I desire to have all sorts of people come and live in America. I want them to come in legally. I want them to desire assimilation into our way of life. I want them to learn to speak English. I want them to add to our society and not drain it.

Open borders do not accomplish or facilitate those values. The Ds see them only as a means to gain power and control through buying their votes with welfare. It is spiritually evil.

I do not think you truly understand "American Exceptionalism."



So now you're in favor of 'the caravan' people being allowed to present themselves at the border and apply for asylum?

As far as 'adding to society', any idea how many US Nobel prizes were won by 1st or 2nd gen immigrants?*

And please name all of the Ds advocating for 'open borders.' I don't know of any. There are lots who are advocating more avenues for immigrants, and more avenues for children of illegals, brought into the US when they were young, but that's a long, looooong way from 'open borders'.

I see the Rs being the ones who are demonizing immigrants (Mexicans are rapists, Muslims are terrorists). They are trying to completely close the border, at least to people who aren't white (Norwegians).

THAT behavior is 'spiritually evil', and goes against everything this country was founded on.

You often claim that those of us who disagree with you 'don't understand' you.

I highly doubt you know how much I understand about the claim of 'American Exceptionalism'.

And how much the idea makes me want to puke. We aren't the "master race.' Or the 'master country'.
We got lucky. No more, no less.

And it took genocide in the truest sense of the word to make it happen.

Edit to add:

* - over half of the Nobel prize winners in '16-'17 were not born in the US. Nearly 40% of the winners since 2000 were not born in the US. I couldn't find info on 2nd gen immigrant winners, but it's fairly high from what I've read.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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RonD1120

***
And the source you are posting is listed as hyper-partisan. Probably not a good place to form opinions for yourself. But then I think you prefer other people to tell you what to think, that way you don't have to be responsible for anything.



I want you to stop and think about how that applies to you.

Sure, feel free to point out where I have supplied a hyper-partisan source like you frequently do.

I'll wait.

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RonD1120

******... The goal is to keep out the undesirables and allow only those with something to offer access....

The only exception I can think of is joining the family of Christ. Jesus accepts you as you are.




Despite Trump's promise to protect them, Christian refugees struggle to enter U.S.
Trump vowed to aid Mideast Christians. But under his administration the number of Christian refugees admitted to the U.S. has fallen more than 40 percent.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/despite-trump-s-promise-protect-them-christian-refugees-struggle-enter-n908501

A Christian Pastor Joined a Migrant Caravan to Show How Non-Threatening They Are
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2018/11/16/a-christian-pastor-joined-a-migrant-caravan-to-show-how-non-threatening-they-are/

IMO, after the wall is constructed or least funded and started we can begin to show favoritism.

You need to come to grips with the fact that it's not getting built. Even the 25bn price tag is low for the reality of the terrain, land use and private ownership issues they'll run into. It's simply not happening.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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Sarah Sanders gets "fact checked" by FOX News on one of Trump's border-wall lies.

===========
Sanders: We know that roughly nearly 4,000 known or suspected terrorists come into our country illegally, and we know that our most vulnerable point of entry is southern border.

Wallace: I know the statistic, I didn’t know if you were going to use it, but I studied up on this . Do you know where those 4,000 people come where they are captured? Airports.

Sanders: Uh, not . . .

Wallace: Airports. The state department says there haven't been any terrorists found coming across the southern border.
==========

Good thing he defunded the TSA, eh?

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You need to come to grips with the fact that it's not getting built. Even the 25bn price tag is low for the reality of the terrain, land use and private ownership issues they'll run into. It's simply not happening.



Even more than that it will not happen because America is better than that. The idea of a wall is widely recognized as not only wasteful and ineffective, but a symbol of evil. I know that Ron understands emotion. But does he understand that more of Americans have a strong emotional feeling that the idea of a "Wall" around the nation offends even more people than it appeals to?

The American people simply will not stand for a wall.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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>We, and I mean the western world have a certain way of doing things which has made
>our culture the dominant one.

And yet we use Arabic, not Roman, numbers.



I'm all for scientific exchange, that should be the universal language. Cultural exchange is a different thing since not all parts of all cultures have equal merit. Science is either true or not regardless of what you believe or in which society you grew up in.

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I'd say that bringing in people from other cultures helped CREATE those values. We base much of our law on English philosophical principles.



Yes English - which is in the same cultural landscape.

Most if not all of our values are based on the judeo-christian tradition and the enlightenment thinkers of western europe during the Renaissance.

I would gladly be pointed to a middle eastern or african school of thought with similar consequences for our society.

Quote

And even then, we shouldn't toot our own horn too loudly there. The US was one of the last countries to ban slavery, for example.



As a German I totally agree with that sentiment. Yet constant whataboutism of things that happened generations ago will not further the discussion.


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The legalization of interracial marriage. When that case was decided by the US Supreme Court, most of the country opposed it.



I really don't know what you are trying to say here. If you're saying that the majority is not always on the right side of history, that is nothing new. That's what constitutions and bill of rights are for. Also the majority of people at least in Germany are not really opposed to mass immigration.

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Ethnic areas of cities has always drawn me to them for their culture and especially their food.



I understand that. It is a problem though, if the guy making your Kebab forces his 16 year old daughter to marry his cousin in turkey.

This actually happened in my high school class in 1995. The girl in my class just never came back to school after the summer holidays... the PTA found out what happened...

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I'm all for scientific exchange, that should be the universal language. Cultural exchange is a different thing since not all parts of all cultures have equal merit.


Of course. No one is saying "you have to take everything from every culture."

But the culture the US has now is a melting pot of a hundred different cultures. Every time a new flavor has been added there has been resistance - you can go back to Ben Franklin's time when he was ranting about the swarthy, stupid Germans, and how they wanted to Germanize the American colonies, rather than them letting the colonies Anglify them. And today we have hamburgers and Budweiser and frankfurters and kindergarten. If you told Ben Franklin that that would happen someday he'd have a heart attack - but today we think nothing is more American than Budweiser and hot dogs.

At the same time, we didn't adopt eugenics from Germany. (To be more accurate, we stopped progress on that front when we saw where it could lead.) We pick and choose.

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Yet constant whataboutism of things that happened generations ago will not further the discussion.


No worries - as long as we can refrain from the same whataboutism when it comes to other cultures.

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I really don't know what you are trying to say here. If you're saying that the majority is not always on the right side of history, that is nothing new. That's what constitutions and bill of rights are for. Also the majority of people at least in Germany are not really opposed to mass immigration.



You asked for an example where diversity was increased very quickly and against the wishes of a lot of the native population. Allowing blacks to marry whites was an example of increased diversity in US culture (mixed-race families were definitely a very small and unaccepted phenomenon in the US at the time) and it was opposed very strongly by the populace.

I agree that the majority is not always on the right side of history. We should learn from that, and have a little more tolerance of new ideas, new cultures and new (and more diverse) world views. IMO of course.

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There is nothing new under the sun. In 1860 it was "NINA".

https://www.google.ca/search?source=hp&ei=7pwzXJfSMJTB7gKPqKHQBg&q=no+irish+allowed&btnK=Google+Search&oq=no+irish+allowed&gs_l=psy-ab.3...1529.6540..7019...0.0..0.298.2515.0j15j2......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j35i39j0i131j0i67.5V3ZfIiktR0


Filth crime ridden immigrants destroying the nation.

Just subhuman garbage from a shithole country.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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normiss

Ethnic areas of cities has always drawn me to them for their culture and especially their food.
I love standing in the middle of a 'China town' area and seeing no clue that you're standing in America. Nothing in English, nothing recognizable as American.
Greek, Italian, German, Hispanic, Irish, even some Russian are very interesting areas. Learning about their culture has always been interesting. We could learn a LOT from the hospitality and respect of some cultures.

I always that that's what America was. Diversity with a common desire for a common nation.
It's how I was raised in a multi-generational military family to think that. Nationality and race never mattered.



Yep, me too. Just come in legally. Don't sneak into the barrio and get welfare then deal crack, meth, and opiates.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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>Yep, me too. Just come in legally.

Agreed. Like the refugees in the caravan were trying to do.

>Don't sneak into the barrio and get welfare then deal crack, meth, and opiates.

Also agreed. Unfortunately, US citizens do such things with a higher frequency than immigrants.

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Don't sneak into the barrio and get welfare then deal crack, meth, and opiates.




That's not what they do Ron. They keep their head down, work hard, and try to send support to their families. They probably were told by God that that's what they needed to do. What would you do if your family was in a bad place and the Holy Spirit told you that you could do something to help?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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billvon

>Yep, me too. Just come in legally.

Agreed. Like the refugees in the caravan were trying to do.

>Don't sneak into the barrio and get welfare then deal crack, meth, and opiates.

Also agreed. Unfortunately, US citizens do such things with a higher frequency than immigrants.



Still does not justify an open border.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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gowlerk

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Don't sneak into the barrio and get welfare then deal crack, meth, and opiates.




That's not what they do Ron. They keep their head down, work hard, and try to send support to their families. They probably were told by God that that's what they needed to do. What would you do if your family was in a bad place and the Holy Spirit told you that you could do something to help?



The Holy Spirit usually guides those who are in a relationship with Jesus Christ to grow in the pot in which they are planted.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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gowlerk

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Still does not justify an open border.



Can you point me to someone who is calling for open borders?



Look in mirror
billvon
normiss
jakee
skydekker
wolfriverjoe
riggerbob
Jerry Baumchen
Nancy Pelosi
Chuck Schummer

My apologies to those I overlooked.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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The Holy Spirit usually guides those who are in a relationship with Jesus Christ to grow in the pot in which they are planted.




That hardly explains the Mayflower Ron. But you did not really answer my question. What would you do to save YOUR family?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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billvon

>Look in mirror
>billvon

I'm not calling for open borders. Never have.

Is this how you justify your positions? With lies about other people's positions? What's wrong with honesty?



Nor am I.

Hey Ron - Can you please point out any post where I called for an open border or unrestricted immigration?

Or are you lying?

Edit to add:

You also list Schumer & Pelosi.

Can you give one legit news source that shows them advocating it?

One?

Just because the 'Wall' is a stupid idea from a stupid man doesn't mean that the opponents want open borders or unrestricted immigration.

In fact, I have no issues with fences or walls where they make sense. Tijuana/San Diego is a place where a high wall is appropriate.

However, the idea of a wall from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific is stupid.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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gowlerk

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The Holy Spirit usually guides those who are in a relationship with Jesus Christ to grow in the pot in which they are planted.




That hardly explains the Mayflower Ron. But you did not really answer my question. What would you do to save YOUR family?



Oh Ron! Your studies have been deficient. I prescribe five Sinner's Prayers and the study of the following.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-immigration/

https://www.openbible.info/topics/immigration

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