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baronn

To anyone considering donating money to the museum......

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This is not a discussion about whether the museum shude or shude not be built. It's about how this project is being handled. After almost 47 yrs, there isn't so much as a plan in place to get this project finished. What is being done is an aggressive effort to recruit members into an imaginery Hall of Fame (Shame?) and an equally aggressive effort to gather more funding. No clarification about where these funds are going or what they are being used for. What little info that is being shared shows an unrealistic idea of building next to an (as of yet) unplanned wind tunnel.
Those I have contacted are at best elusive about what is happening and how funding is being used. The members of the BOD I have contacted don't even want to find out and don't seem to care about whether this ever actually gets done. The recurring theme seems to be, "But, we need to preserve our history and need the Museum." Yeah, we get that. Am I the only 1 that is seeing a problem here?

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LeeroyJenkins

you don't know what you are talking about



I disagree, I think he has some valid concerns. However, questions about the feasibility and lack of transparency of the skydiving museum were beat to death in the other thread(s). What will creating a 3rd (or more, no idea how many have been on this site) really do?
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

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Reading the other threads and the museum response letter in Parachutist has made me pretty pessimistic on the idea of the museum.

The letter imagined a facility that was geared toward non-skydivers, with interactive exhibits designed to get people interested / comfortable with the sport. I think we have enough ways to get people interested already.

What would I as a skydiver like to see in a museum? Just the gear and other old artifacts, please. The sword, some other trophies, log book entries, rigs, suits, boots, tuffets, chutes, one of those things to judge style from the ground, that sort of thing. I say find a good airplane museum and build it as an annex, one price for the whole thing. Just a pole barn full of old crap, that is all I want to pay for.
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

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After almost 47 yrs, there isn't so much as a plan in place to get this project finished.



That you know of.

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What is being done is an aggressive effort to recruit members into an imaginery (sic) Hall of Fame (Shame?)



An aggressive effort? Please provide proof of this aggressive effort.

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and an equally aggressive effort to gather more funding.



Again, where is your proof of this aggressive effort?


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No clarification about where these funds are going or what they are being used for.



It's a non-profit, if you care so much look at their financial statements and you will be clear on where the funds are going.

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What little info that is being shared shows an unrealistic idea of building next to an (as of yet) unplanned wind tunnel.



What is unrealistic about building it next to a tunnel?


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Those I have contacted are at best elusive about what is happening and how funding is being used. The members of the BOD I have contacted don't even want to find out and don't seem to care about whether this ever actually gets done.



Maybe they understand that these things take a very long time?

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The recurring theme seems to be, "But, we need to preserve our history and need the Museum." Yeah, we get that.



Yep.

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Am I the only 1 that is seeing a problem here?



No, you have Chris and Rush on your side.

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SethInMI

The letter imagined a facility that was geared toward non-skydivers, with interactive exhibits designed to get people interested / comfortable with the sport.



And how much do you think they are planning to spend to get that? Last number I heard was 14 to 16 million dollars.

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What would I as a skydiver like to see in a museum? Just the gear and other old artifacts, please. The sword, some other trophies, log book entries, rigs, suits, boots, tuffets, chutes, one of those things to judge style from the ground, that sort of thing.



When I asked one of the proponents of the museum plan why the costs of the planned museum couldn't be moderated a bit, they angrily said, "What do you want, just manequins with rigs?" (paraphrased)

So there you go. There is the current attitude about how to spend donors (and USPA members) money.

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I say find a good airplane museum and build it as an annex, one price for the whole thing.



This is an excellent idea, and one that has been discussed by numerous people.

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peek

"What do you want, just mannequins with rigs?"



Yep.

My idea of interactive exhibits would be replica rigs that you could try on, stuffed to make them weigh and feel like the rigs would when packed. Practice popping some capewells, or deploy a chest reserve, etc. Get the feel of how the gear evolved over last 50 years.
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

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Gary, you seem to be 1 of the few on the Board with some sense on this fiasco. I have suggested adding this to an already in existence museum many times. All 1 has to do is follow what other much bigger organizations have done with their own artifacts. Red Bull donated Felix Baumgartners capsule and space suit to the National Air and Space museum. Had that been suggested when 41 was still alive, I'm pretty sure 1 call from him wude have gotten that handled and this wude be done. Why the pushback? It just doesn't make any sense what has been done so far and clearly history shows it to be a failure.

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Ok, that's it. I have to ask - what's with the wude/shude thing? Shirley you know that's not how those words are spelled, right? I mean, you can spell "existence," "organizations," and "artifacts," so I have to think it's intentional.

I only ask because I'd really like to stop hearing "wooooood" and "shoooood" in my head every time I read one of your posts.

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DBCOOPER

The Air and Space Museum would be perfect. And more realistic to accomplish.



The Museum did have a place at Dulles Airport Smithsonian Air and Space in 2001. One man at the Air and Space was helping Bill Ottley and Chris Needles get a location and Government funding---he died. No one else at Air and Space was interested in a Skydiving Museum and the whole effort was gone.

The main issue is using USPA Members money to keep the boondoggle going day to day. They have one paid employee.
I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

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The Air and Space Museum would be perfect. And more realistic to accomplish.



IIRC, there was a four-way hanging in the Air and Space Museum on the Mall. I think Jerry Bird and Bill Ottley were suppose to be two of the individuals. The skydivers were equipped to show different eras of the sport. Eventually it was moved as different artifacts were displayed.

It's probably in their warehouse somewhere along with the other thousands (millions?) of things they have no room to display. That would be the problem with the Air and Space Museum.
Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

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baronn

Gary, you seem to be 1 of the few on the Board with some sense on this fiasco. I have suggested adding this to an already in existence museum many times. All 1 has to do is follow what other much bigger organizations have done with their own artifacts. Red Bull donated Felix Baumgartners capsule and space suit to the National Air and Space museum. Had that been suggested when 41 was still alive, I'm pretty sure 1 call from him wude have gotten that handled and this wude be done. Why the pushback? It just doesn't make any sense what has been done so far and clearly history shows it to be a failure.



If we are talking alternatives it makes way more sense to feature the HOF and museum at an already existing aviation museum. A few museums already have a decent section for parachuting.

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Hi flyhi,

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I think Jerry Bird and Bill Ottley were suppose to be two of the individuals.



And Dick Fortenberry was one of the four. I simply do not remember who the 4th jumper was, maybe John Sherman wearing one of his SST rigs.

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It's probably in their warehouse somewhere



I seem to remember that it was moved to an aviation museum in San Diego.

Jerry Baumchen

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The fourth Skydiver is Mike Johnston. He's been managing DeLand for decades.

Can we get this thread back on subject ?
Because of efforts here and on Facebook, dues paying USPA Members are asking WTF about the construction of a Skydiving Museum next to a wind tunnel that might never be built in 6 years maybe.

>:(
I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

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In the December newsletter from the USPA, they announced that indoor skydiving is outside the USPA's "scope" and have recognized another organization to represent that. Yet, they are pinning their hopes and dreams of having the ISMHOF attached to a wind tunnel. Do they even talk to each other? Clearly the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. Or any other part for that matter.
The game plan for the museum is to paint this fantastic picture of why we need this (agreed) and then to go out and garner as many folks into the HOF and then raise as much money as possible. IFly has not announced this N Orlando location as of yet. It's usually about a 3-4 yr process from there once they do. If they decide tomorrow, that means we are looking at a minimum of 5 yrs to opening. To annex this onto another existing museum cude be done in less than half that amount of time.

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It reveals that approximately 5% of the revenue is garnered from admission prices. Clearly that doesn't even come close to covering the costs to keep the doors open. Hopefully someone from the ISMHOF can pipe in and offer how they plan on keeping this operating if and when they ever get it done.

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skyfox2007

Leeroy,
Way to pull apart and minimize someone's legitimate concerns. You'd make an excellent politician.

And how much do you know about this project, other than that you disagree with Barron? What are the aliens telling you that they're not telling us?

-JD-



I do not know much about the particular project. That lack of information does not mean there is a problem, it just means the information isn't public. I do however know about project management and non-profits.

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I messaged IFly on FB about them building another tunnel in Orlando and got this reply:

Thanks so much We did just last year build a new tunnel in Orlando to replace the original. As of right now, we do not have plans of another in the city. Though, we are growing fast and things could change.

The more I dig into this, the more misrepresntation I find....

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It continues to get even better. I was unaware that IFly has 2 tunnels in 1 building at their Orlando location. So, the ISMHOF is telling us that IFly will be building another building and tunnel in that same area, donating space for the museum and if I'm correct, continuing to cover the costs to keep it open. Now, the museum has not said that IFly will cover these costs and because IFly has not even committed to doing this, we simply don't know. What history has told us is museums mostly exist thru donations and outside support. So even if this ever gets done, the donations will be necessary to keep it open. The plan we are being told (if you can even call it that), is from an historical and business view, not possible.
If anyone can correct me (with facts, hold the opinions), that I've gotten something wrong here, I'm all ears (or eyeballs)

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I do not know much about the particular project



Some of us do.

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That lack of information does not mean there is a problem, it just means the information isn't public.



Which most of us would not care about if we were not paying for it, and potentially on the hook for paying more for it in the future.

If there is not information.... Then it IS a failure of the museum to communicate to gather support. I asked one of the "Ambassadors" and they said "If you wanted information, you should have traveled to Zhills and asked about it there during the event." So if I wanted information, I had to travel and pay to attend one of their events?

Again, if I was not paying for it.... I'd actually agree with him. But since they are getting USPA membership dollars, then I say the USPA members should be informed and not blown off.

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I do however know about project management and non-profits.



You are not the only one with project management experience.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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