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ChrisD2.0

Elizabeth Warren

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Anyone have that vid of Warren when she was "teaching" at Harvard,...the one where she came oout and supported "Nieve Americans" and their ancestral plight????

Poll? How many of you out there have actually been to the Cherokee and some of the Indian Blood Registries? As an example the registry in the Smokey Mountains as an example? It's funny the lack of comments about how the Indians keep tract of what percentage blood they are. And no one raises the raciest card? I think it's great that the Cherokee nation keeps track of percentage blood, at least now we have proof of Warrens lies over the years.
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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>Anyone have that vid of Warren when she was "teaching" at Harvard . . .

So you don't believe she was teaching at Harvard?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

BTW the image of Trump claiming that Warren is dishonest harkens back to the Iraqi Information Minister calling US media dishonest.

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ChrisD2.0

Anyone have that vid of Warren when she was "teaching" at Harvard,...the one where she came oout and supported "Nieve Americans" and their ancestral plight????

Poll? How many of you out there have actually been to the Cherokee and some of the Indian Blood Registries? As an example the registry in the Smokey Mountains as an example? It's funny the lack of comments about how the Indians keep tract of what percentage blood they are. And no one raises the raciest card? I think it's great that the Cherokee nation keeps track of percentage blood, at least now we have proof of Warrens lies over the years.



Would you mind writing this again in your native language?

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so you have some issue with someone claiming that they have Native American heritage in the family (which she does), no different than you claiming that you have Irish heritage, which no doubt could also be proven reasonably with a DNA test or family records.....

But you do not bring up anything to do with the million dollar bet that was reneged upon.

A man is only as good as his word. Trump reneged on a bet. that makes him a welch I guess...... Wonder if that can be shown with a DNA test?

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So I take it TK that your not familiar with the Cherokee Tribal Nation Council?

You know the actual Native Americans that said the other day that Warren is Not a Native American, and that they take "great offense" to her claims?

You also missed the part where the same Nation of Native Americans as well as about a hundred other science organizations point out that the publics knowledge and ignorance about DNA tests, is totally flawed.

It's amazing that so many misinformed members of the public feel free to speak about a subject, DNA, which their only real knowledge of is what they are told and or read about in the National Enquirer.

Do you know TK of the nearby Native American Indian registry, and of the registry in Ocala as well? Do you know that most all native Americans Feel that Warren has actually used them, once again, just as in the "Trail of Tears," for her own, white mans gain and oppression.

Of course not, your too busy reading the national Enquirer. To be concerned about real issues and real consequences to actual native Americans , especially those living in your own community.

the more you know,.....
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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What's your point? Are you saying that this issue disqualifies her from running for President? Back in the day she said she has some American Indian heritage based upon family lore, someone she ran against brought it up in an election cycle, Trump brought it up later and now she's shown that she does in fact have some American Indian heritage in her family. Sure Harvard shouldn't have run with it as her being a full blooded native and yes seems like she let them say that but in the end.......Who Fucking Cares?

Is this really all you guys have to try to turn her in the next Hillary Clinton that everyone on the Right will hate?

So in conclusion, concerning the issue of Elizabeth Pocahontas-Gate: Wuppity Fucking Dooo.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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You know the actual Native Americans that said the other day that Warren is Not a Native American, and that they take "great offense" to her claims?


She didn't say she was a Native American. She said she had native American ancestors.

I am not Italian. I have Italian ancestors. I am certain a DNA test would demonstrate that, as well.

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Chris, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. I live in the heart of the Cherokee, Osage & Creek nations. Warren said she was of native American descent; she never expressed any tribe affiliation. From your writings; I can infer that you are knowledgeable in native American heritage.

In Oklahoma; many claim to be of native American descent and in fact; many are. The difference being in one question, "Are you on the rolls?" That is what segregates the difference between being of native American descent and having a tribal affiliation.

I'm not sure what the big deal is from either side; other than semantics. Around here; it is accepted that you can be either a descendant or on the rolls and not be wrong. In fact, to make the claim to be on the rolls requires no less than x/4ths (depending on tribe) to get on the rolls.

So, you can be 1/32nd or 1/64th Native American and still not make the tribal roll. I just feel like I'm rambling here, cause I'm not sure of your position... But, I think both Warren & Trump are right. And, I think we have much more to discuss than this silliness.

EDIT: Grammar
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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ChrisD2.0

So I take it TK that your not familiar with the Cherokee Tribal Nation Council?

You know the actual Native Americans that said the other day that Warren is Not a Native American, and that they take "great offense" to her claims?

You also missed the part where the same Nation of Native Americans as well as about a hundred other science organizations point out that the publics knowledge and ignorance about DNA tests, is totally flawed.

It's amazing that so many misinformed members of the public feel free to speak about a subject, DNA, which their only real knowledge of is what they are told and or read about in the National Enquirer.

Do you know TK of the nearby Native American Indian registry, and of the registry in Ocala as well? Do you know that most all native Americans Feel that Warren has actually used them, once again, just as in the "Trail of Tears," for her own, white mans gain and oppression.

Of course not, your too busy reading the national Enquirer. To be concerned about real issues and real consequences to actual native Americans , especially those living in your own community.

the more you know,.....



Once again you sidestep the actual issue, which is that Trump once again lied and failed to make good on a claim he made.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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I have been paying attention to Elizabeth Warren for a few years Now,,, I first saw her on some TV News programs and immediately thought that she was smart, and articulate and strong in her convictions. She seemed to be railing against Corporate Inequality regarding workers pay vs. CEOs pay. Seemed to be for the Blue collar types, the hard working citizens who BUILT this country, and seemed to be working for some Fairness.... What difference ?? concerning her Heritage ? I have no reason to doubt her, after ALL, SHE has known her Family History her Whole Life...Those who bring it UP in a Contentious and demeaning way... are simply being partisan and are trying to Deflect attention from her sensible behavior.... I have learned NOT to trust most of these "Special Interest " claims and attacks... So unproductive and further evidence of a " smoke & Mirrors " approach to FAR too many issues.... I am neither democrat , nor republican, as BOTH parties have been disappointing to me, for Decades. I Will continue to Listen to What She has to say,,, and weigh things , rationally... I would prefer Ms. Warren to Joe Biden,,,, ANY day..and Certainly to HRC...>:(.
I wonder just How, the voting public might respond to a Warren - Sanders Ticket,,,, OR to a Sanders - Warren Ticket ??? any ideas ??
jmy in Rochester..

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Putting her with Bernie Sanders would be purely pandering; for one thing, he’s just plain too old. He was the oldest during the last election.

One problem with the current hyper-partisan and public atmosphere is that any candidate can expect to have incredible scrutiny going back to elementary school. Ever shoot a spit wad at the teacher? Ever smoke behind the barn? Ever sample pot? Ever try something? If someone never did anything wrong I’m not interested either, because they have no imagination or creativity, or else they were Machiavellian in their desire for power back in elementary school.

There aren’t a lot of inspiring up-and-comers in either major party.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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I wonder just How, the voting public might respond to a Warren - Sanders Ticket,,,, OR to a Sanders - Warren Ticket ??? any ideas ??
jmy in Rochester..



Bloomberg/Warren
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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kallend


Once again you sidestep the actual issue, which is that Trump once again lied and failed to make good on a claim he made.



Well, Duh.

Trump makes claim that Warren is not of Indian descent, offers to pay money if she is.

She shows that she is.

He then claims he never made that promise.

The Trumpettes then go off on tangents like "she's not a member of a tribe" (she never claimed to be), or "she's doesn't have enough Indian heritage (nobody ever set a limit).

Has Trump been 'held to account' on any of the ridiculous lies he's told?

Ever?
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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ChrisD2.0

You also missed the part where the same Nation of Native Americans as well as about a hundred other science organizations point out that the publics knowledge and ignorance about DNA tests, is totally flawed.

It's amazing that so many misinformed members of the public feel free to speak about a subject, DNA, which their only real knowledge of is what they are told and or read about in the National Enquirer.



Hi Chris. So you’re saying that President Donald Trump is ignorant, misinformed, and prone to speak out about things he only knows from the National Enquirer?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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"She shows that she is."

But she really didn't. The DNA results show that she could be 1/64 to 1/1024 "American Indian" (nothing specific to tribe), but she could also have none whatsoever. The average white American has double the "American Indian" DNA as Warren does; her result was basically within statistical uncertainty of zero. And this is based on DNA analysis making some educated guesses derived from South American samples, because many Native Americans have been reluctant to give DNA samples (I don't blame them).

She has some family lore, that's about it. But lore can be hazy. In my own family there was a story about a boy woken up in the middle of the night and the mother whisking him away. Somewhere along the way someone must have speculated that she was escaping an abusive husband who had wealthy connections and was sending PIs out to search for her, possibly a high up politician in the south, and she changed their family name, or that's how the story was once told to me. I started digging into it and from what I could find this mother had followed a job somewhere temporarily and a wealthy benefactor surprised her by funding the travel costs for her to go back and bring her son ahead of schedule so they could enjoy a holiday together. The records of the father are sketchy but he appears to have merely died young in a war or even just been a deadbeat who abandoned them. Was there really an abusive coverup scenario? Maybe, maybe not. This was just 5-6 generations ago. Is family lore from 10 generations ago or more really that reliable? Probably not, but there's always that chance.

Do I really care if Warren has some distant Cherokee ancestry or not? No. I don't think we should be discriminating based on race in the first place, and that includes getting academic favoritism for being minority status. But since our society has decided it is worthwhile to favor minority races in academia and elsewhere, I think it odd that Warren would claim to be Native American when she's more European white than the average white American. Is 1/1024 really adequate threshold to claim minority status and let your employer brag about? What should the threshold be? You can see why I think this whole genetic favoritism is asinine and unsustainable. It shouldn't matter, but Warren is just as responsible as Trump for continuing to make this an issue. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

PS, regardless of her ancestry, I have listened to her enough on actual issues to know there is no chance in hell I would ever vote for her. Go ahead and think she is reasonable all you want, but being better than HRC is really not saying much.
Max Peck
What's the point of having top secret code names, fellas, if we ain't gonna use 'em?

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>But she really didn't. The DNA results show that she could be 1/64 to 1/1024 "American
>Indian" (nothing specific to tribe), but she could also have none whatsoever.

Yes, that is a possibility. But it is extremely unlikely. Just as it is possible - but extremely unlikely - that a Japanese couple could give birth to a Native American child.

>The average white American has double the "American Indian" DNA as Warren does;
>her result was basically within statistical uncertainty of zero.

That's like saying the average American has one skydive. Statistically true. But if you use that information to say "well, you have no skydives because you're scared to jump, so you aren't as brave as most Americans!" that's not true. The reason the average is one is because some people have thousands, and most people have none.

Likewise, the reason that an average American have a tiny percentage of Native American DNA is because most people have none, and a few people have a lot.

>She has some family lore, that's about it. But lore can be hazy.

Yes, it can be. She now has proof that hers is not so hazy.

>I think it odd that Warren would claim to be Native American when she's more European
>white than the average white American.

That would be odd. But she hasn't done that. She has said she has Native American ancestors, which is true.

This seems like a big stinking pot of nothing, concocted so the president could welch on a bet. There's nothing to it. She has Native American ancestors. Tests have proven that. Which means she meets the (silly) federal standard to be native American. She doesn't claim to be Native American and never has. Her employer did once, probably to "prove" that they were really diverse. That's it.

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What do you mean by "could be"? Do you have anything to back up the idea that the 'average American' has double the Native DNA?

I don't really understand DNA and genetic testing beyond what the average person does.

But, if I understand correctly, she had 5 genetic segments that are exclusive to Native Americans. Because of the isolation after the population crossed the land bridge from Siberia, they've got some fairly unique DNA.

Warren has that. There's not really any question that she had a Native ancestor in the "multiple great" range (6 - 10 generations).

Forbes has a decent explanation of it.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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SkyDekker

So you are in the "not native enough" camp.

Let me guess, you also believe in personal responsibility.....



More like in the "dont give a damn how Native" camp. I dont get the reference to personal responsibility, sorry.

She provided the classification of being Native American, that wasn't her employer exaggerating on her behalf.

To who ever asked about data sources, there was a 2014 23andme study that found African and Native American DNA in the majority of self-identified European-Americans (not just Americans on average). Of course the percentages were small, but still double what Warren has. Actually it's pretty surprising it's as small as it is given how many hundred years we have been living together.
Max Peck
What's the point of having top secret code names, fellas, if we ain't gonna use 'em?

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Yup. My sister's results showed up as 0.1% Subsaharan African and remainder very very very Northern European. Presumably that would put the closest relative at something like 10 generations ago assuming it was a 1/2 split each time. The group who made the test says this does reflect an actual connection, not an error in the testing. We can only speculate what the situation was but history would indicate that it had to do with slavery on my father's more British Isles side.

I'm also part of the don't give a damn how Native camp but I understand that it has been vogue for a long time for people who had a Native American relative to say so. In the 60's and 70's it seemed like just about everyone and especially black people had a Cherokee great great great...etc...grandmother. The fact is that she was told by her family she has that relation and I don't fault her for saying so or even exaggerating it or even allowing her employer to further exaggerate it as I don't think it's relevant to any assessment of her honesty or integrity.

What's happened here is that the Right lost their favorite insult for Warren and the best they can do is continue to plow through it as an insult in their quest to drag her down. They're trying very hard to make her the next HRC and if some confusion about her ancestry is the best they can do then it sounds like we have a good candidate for 2020.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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DJL

...What's happened here is that the Right lost their favorite insult for Warren and the best they can do is continue to plow through it as an insult in their quest to drag her down. They're trying very hard to make her the next HRC and if some confusion about her ancestry is the best they can do then it sounds like we have a good candidate for 2020.



What happened here is Trump followed his usual pattern.

Call someone an insulting name, make a 'bet' based on it.

When the person meets the demand and wins the bet, deny he ever said it.

Then weasel and backpedal like the coward he really is.

And the Trumpettes pretend it's Warren who is at fault, not Trump.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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And the Trumpettes pretend it's Warren who is at fault, not Trump.



Yup, I have friends actually saying that this proves she's a liar and if I care about Trump being a liar then how can I not care about Warren being a liar. My response is that only one of those people recently paid a multi-million dollar settlement for their lies, aka Trump University.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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DJL

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And the Trumpettes pretend it's Warren who is at fault, not Trump.



Yup, I have friends actually saying that this proves she's a liar and if I care about Trump being a liar then how can I not care about Warren being a liar. My response is that only one of those people recently paid a multi-million dollar settlement for their lies, aka Trump University.



They don't care.

Like their hero, they will say and do just about anything to defend him.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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AtrusBatleth

"She shows that she is."

But she really didn't. The DNA results show that she could be 1/64 to 1/1024 "American Indian" (nothing specific to tribe), but she could also have none whatsoever. The average white American has double the "American Indian" DNA as Warren does; her result was basically within statistical uncertainty of zero. And this is based on DNA analysis making some educated guesses derived from South American samples, because many Native Americans have been reluctant to give DNA samples (I don't blame them).

She has some family lore, that's about it. But lore can be hazy. In my own family there was a story about a boy woken up in the middle of the night and the mother whisking him away. Somewhere along the way someone must have speculated that she was escaping an abusive husband who had wealthy connections and was sending PIs out to search for her, possibly a high up politician in the south, and she changed their family name, or that's how the story was once told to me. I started digging into it and from what I could find this mother had followed a job somewhere temporarily and a wealthy benefactor surprised her by funding the travel costs for her to go back and bring her son ahead of schedule so they could enjoy a holiday together. The records of the father are sketchy but he appears to have merely died young in a war or even just been a deadbeat who abandoned them. Was there really an abusive coverup scenario? Maybe, maybe not. This was just 5-6 generations ago. Is family lore from 10 generations ago or more really that reliable? Probably not, but there's always that chance.

Do I really care if Warren has some distant Cherokee ancestry or not? No. I don't think we should be discriminating based on race in the first place, and that includes getting academic favoritism for being minority status. But since our society has decided it is worthwhile to favor minority races in academia and elsewhere, I think it odd that Warren would claim to be Native American when she's more European white than the average white American. Is 1/1024 really adequate threshold to claim minority status and let your employer brag about? What should the threshold be? You can see why I think this whole genetic favoritism is asinine and unsustainable. It shouldn't matter, but Warren is just as responsible as Trump for continuing to make this an issue. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

PS, regardless of her ancestry, I have listened to her enough on actual issues to know there is no chance in hell I would ever vote for her. Go ahead and think she is reasonable all you want, but being better than HRC is really not saying much.



This isn't about discrimination at all or the much maligned word : "Racism."

It's about how one woman politician is yet again screwing over the alleged people she allegedly represents.

I'm glad you noticed that DNA results and were savvy enough to know about how these faux DNA places have distorted and exploited the publics ignorance and general, overall ability to NOT be able to tell fact from fiction. Another example of how the public is being exploited by their own ignorance.

The faux science the media exploits and the sheer number of ignorant individuals, many as yo have seen here, just accept what they are told and then they just parrot it back. The whole DNA ancestry thing is insane and totally made up. It is considerably less accurate than most people can even imagine. Something like 99.99999% of every humans DNA is the SAME. And for the most part a persons "ancestry" can NOT be discerned from any for profit mail order DNA boiler room shop.

Good thoughtful observations on your part I must add!

The big issue is that right in front of the public, Warren is publicly orating she is for the people, and supports Democratic ideology. When the truth, her voting record, and policies continue to hurt and punish those she is allegedly helping. And as far as Native Americans', she is yet again screwing them over in a big way, right in front of everyone's face. And she, as evidenced here, is getting away with it. Her continued use of a oppressed and minority people is worthy of being compared with any past human history which included genocide as a political tool. Because that is in fact the end result of her treatment of Native Americans and her continued exploitation of an ignorant public.
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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Do I really care if Warren has some distant Cherokee ancestry or not? No. I don't think we should be discriminating based on race in the first place, and that includes getting academic favoritism for being minority status.



I hope you realize that through her life she's been on an academic and professional level that has eclipsed anything for which a "race boost" would benefit her. She's not some half assed teacher they hired so they could put a checkmark next to their Diversity Goals list. She's one of the top three most cited lawyers in commercial and bankruptcy law,w was an associate Dean, has served in numerous advisory roles to professional commissions, and has taught at some one the best schools in the country.

To say she's gotten academic favoritism is laughable.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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