Corporate Welfare, Amazon et al.

[Phil1111 910]

Did Jeff Bezos just play the taxpayer? Poor working conditions at Amazon are well documented.

HQ2 deal brings new scrutiny on Amazon
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/416821-hq2-deal-brings-new-scrutiny-on-amazon

How Amazon landed up to $2 billion in subsidies for its new headquarters
https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/13/18079160/amazon-hq2-bids-process-cities-queens-arlington-nashville-crystal-city

Wisconsin’s $4.1 billion Foxconn boondoggle
https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/29/18027032/foxconn-wisconsin-plant-jobs-deal-subsidy-governor-scott-walker

Discover Where Corporations are Getting Taxpayer Assistance Across the United States
https://www.goodjobsfirst.org/subsidy-tracker

[gowlerk 1,910]

Quote

Did Jeff Bezos just play the taxpayer? Poor working conditions at Amazon are well documented.

He very likely did. But poor working conditions will not be found at HQ2. Those are reserved for the poorly educated in the salt mines of the fulfillment centres.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[DJL 232]

It's sometimes necessary to create jobs and make deals work and if properly negotiated can be a long term benefit but typically there's no follow-through and it ends up being a tax burden on those who pay for it to come into town and a hollow jobless landscape when those companies ditch the city for the next fool. There will always be some mayor or governor who wants to start the next campaign by taking credit for bringing someone into town and it's of no consequence if the deal is crap in the long run.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,396]

>Did Jeff Bezos just play the taxpayer?

Well, he either played the local government or they played him. In any case like this both sides are going to be jockeying for position. Bezos wants tax breaks, the government wants the tax income and economy boost from a big HQ in their area.

[ryoder 1,381]

This crap just makes me burn.
States giving subsidies to big corporations, just to move jobs from other states has nothing to do with capitalism.
It is just fools in elected office getting played, and taxpayers getting stuck with the bill.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

ryoder

This crap just makes me burn.
States giving subsidies big corporations, just to move jobs from other states has nothing to do with capitalism.
It is just fools in elected office getting played, and taxpayers getting stuck with the bill.

I think nothing says American capitalism more than tax payers giving $billions to a guy who makes more than $100,000 per second. Somehow that is "success".

[Rick 67]

Usually these kinds of deals come with a requirement to provide x amount of new jobs at a specific salary threshold. It may be good for the local economy, or not only time will tell.
One thing I have never heard of is a municipality asking for their incentive to be returned if the threshold is not met.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[billvon 2,396]

Quote

I think nothing says American capitalism more than tax payers giving $billions to a guy who makes more than $100,000 per second. Somehow that is "success".

If it puts billions into their tax revenue (and housing values, and available jobs) it may well be worth it to the town.

[ChrisD2.0 2]

Rick

Usually these kinds of deals come with a requirement to provide x amount of new jobs at a specific salary threshold. It may be good for the local economy, or not only time will tell.
One thing I have never heard of is a municipality asking for their incentive to be returned if the threshold is not met.

That's a more than fc&kN good point about the after effects of some of these sweetheart deals my Muff Man!!!!

Ten years later did the community get what was promised. On one hand who benefited ?

Not everyone has the memory and good heart yo do. Which I suppose is the issue.
After the election, promise, deal, whatever, does the public care anymore? Or perhaps better said does the public even remember? I try to make a case that in this day and age the public is so apathetic,...that the public literarily has no memories.

Perhaps that's the issue, not so much one company or another exploiting the corruption of the day,....


such a good observation

Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

[DanG 1]

As far as Alrington, VA goes, they don't need the tax money or jobs, and housing prices are already through the roof. This deal, like many government deals, is going to make some rich people richer and screw over the little guy.

- Dan G

[DJL 232]

DanG

As far as Alrington, VA goes, they don't need the tax money or jobs, and housing prices are already through the roof. This deal, like many government deals, is going to make some rich people richer and screw over the little guy.

That's the Amazon model. It's easy to make lot of money if you pay jack shit for taxes and pay jack shit to your employees.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,396]

>As far as Alrington, VA goes, they don't need the tax money or jobs

Well, I suspect their people (and local government) might have a different take on that.

[DanG 1]

Actually many of the people (the little people, mind you) aren't happy about it at all. I grew up less than ten miles from where HQ2/3 will be, and I live about 1 1/2 hours away now. Traffic and rent/housing prices are already some of the worst in the country. This will just help make Arlington another SF Bay area where no one who isn't making six figures can't live anywhere nearby and it will take them two hours to commute in.

- Dan G

[billvon 2,396]

>Actually many of the people (the little people, mind you) aren't happy about it at all.

I don't doubt that. I lived in a small town in NY growing up and there were a bunch of people there who were unhappy about _any_ change. New museum? Thugs will come from the city to visit! Video rental store? They only sell porn, you know. Faster train service? We don't want too many never-here commuters living here.

>This will just help make Arlington another SF Bay area where no one who isn't making
>six figures can't live anywhere nearby and it will take them two hours to commute in.

Probably. And will make existing landowners very happy, since they can then sell their $600,000 houses for $1.3 million.

[DJL 232]

billvon

>As far as Alrington, VA goes, they don't need the tax money or jobs

Well, I suspect their people (and local government) might have a different take on that.

Honestly, I don't think they'd even know what to do with it, there seriously isn't much left to spend their money on. Arlington is the DC not in DC and since I lived there has gone from packed luxury town-home centers to packed luxury condos all on top of each other.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DanG 1]

Good job belittling valid concerns by implying the only people who aren't happy are serial curmudgeons. It's a BS argument and you know it.

I understand the dynamics at play quite well. I fled the DC area almost 20 years ago, mostly to avoid the traffic. I'm glad I did, because it has only gotten worse. Property owners have been raking it the dough, for sure. My Dad sold his suburban house a couple years ago for well over twice the buying price from 1989. My wife's mother sold her Arlington house (small three bedroom, two bath) for $650k about ten years ago. New houses in the same neighborhood are now going for $1.2M.

It's not property owners who will lose. It is lower income people. Not whiners or curmudgeons. People with valid concerns.

- Dan G

[billvon 2,396]

>Honestly, I don't think they'd even know what to do with it, there seriously isn't
>much left to spend their money on.

I know someone who lives there and she's always complaining about how expensive everything is there.

[billvon 2,396]

>Good job belittling valid concerns by implying the only people who aren't happy
>are serial curmudgeons. It's a BS argument and you know it.

Not belittling their concerns at all. There will be winners and losers in any such transaction. The winners will want it to happen (and will express that to their government) and the losers will not want it to happen and also express their sentiments. It is, as is always the case, a tradeoff.

>My Dad sold his suburban house a couple years ago for well over twice the
>buying price from 1989.

That's great. Other people may want to make a similar income from their properties.

>It's not property owners who will lose. It is lower income people. Not whiners or
>curmudgeons. People with valid concerns.

Yep. And some lower income people who own property will make out great. Out of work people who now see a bigger labor market will win. All those are valid concerns as well.

[Iago 8]

billvon

>Honestly, I don't think they'd even know what to do with it, there seriously isn't
>much left to spend their money on.

I know someone who lives there and she's always complaining about how expensive everything is there.

Yeah, I was pretty dissapointed when the 'top 20' was released. All those places were doing fine. Put HQ2 in WV or KY or someplace that could really use the jobs and influx of tech to the region. People will travel to work at Amazon.

So, they decide to go with two of the most expensive places in the county to live. Booooo!

Confirmed cynical sarcastic bastard since 2003

[BIGUN 1,053]

ryoder

This crap just makes me burn.
States giving subsidies to big corporations, just to move jobs from other states has nothing to do with capitalism.
It is just fools in elected office getting played, and taxpayers getting stuck with the bill.

Well, read this and "Feel the Burn, Baby."

Over the past 15 years, the federal government has provided $68 billion in grants and special tax credits to business, with two-thirds of the total going to large corporations.

http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/sites/default/files/docs/pdf/megadeals_report.pdf

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[BIGUN 1,053]

Hell, while we're at it; let's burn a bit over the BILLIONS of dollars in military mistakes.

https://gizmodo.com/the-strange-sad-story-of-the-armys-new-billion-dollar-1616285708

Nah, let's try TRILLIONS...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-04-04/is-the-f-35-a-trillion-dollar-mistake

And we wonder why taxes are so frickin high, our ability to help those in need of social programs, or hell; how about the plain old ground-pounder whose family had to pay for bullet-proof vests?!??!?

Money to reduce the student-teacher ratio in our public schools - Don't be ridiculous!!!

But, I ramble.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

billvon

Quote

I think nothing says American capitalism more than tax payers giving $billions to a guy who makes more than $100,000 per second. Somehow that is "success".

If it puts billions into their tax revenue (and housing values, and available jobs) it may well be worth it to the town.

You must be pretty upset San Diego didn't use tax payer dollars to build the Chargers a stadium then?

[SkyDekker 1,121]

BIGUN

Hell, while we're at it; let's burn a bit over the BILLIONS of dollars in military mistakes.

https://gizmodo.com/the-strange-sad-story-of-the-armys-new-billion-dollar-1616285708

Nah, let's try TRILLIONS...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-04-04/is-the-f-35-a-trillion-dollar-mistake

And we wonder why taxes are so frickin high, our ability to help those in need of social programs, or hell' how about the plain old ground-pounder whose family had to pay for bullet-proof vests?!??!?

Money to reduce the student-teacher ratio in our public schools - Don't be ridiculous!!!

But, I ramble.

And your taxes are low.

[billvon 2,396]

>You must be pretty upset San Diego didn't use tax payer dollars to build the Chargers a stadium then?

Nope. I didn't think it was worth it, especially after my company put in $20 million to upgrade the old stadium. But a lot of people here thought it was, and were upset when they left.

[TriGirl 268]

BIGUN

Hell, while we're at it; let's burn a bit over the BILLIONS of dollars in military mistakes.

https://gizmodo.com/the-strange-sad-story-of-the-armys-new-billion-dollar-1616285708

Nah, let's try TRILLIONS...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-04-04/is-the-f-35-a-trillion-dollar-mistake

And we wonder why taxes are so frickin high, our ability to help those in need of social programs, or hell; how about the plain old ground-pounder whose family had to pay for bullet-proof vests?!??!?

Money to reduce the student-teacher ratio in our public schools - Don't be ridiculous!!!

But, I ramble.

Well then, what about all the military members who work at the Pentagon, just across the expressway, from Crystal City? We already have to live quite a ways out of town to afford anything, and the traffic/rail crowds are already maxed out. I get that they like the proximity of Reagan Airport, but couldn't they have moved out to Vienna and been in close proximity to Dulles? Plenty of folks out there would love to see housing prices out there rise instead, and with a bigger incentive to complete the metro rail tracks out to Dulles and beyond.

Crystal City/Pentagon Row is already way too crowded, IMHO. It's going to be unreal when they move in. They actually could have gotten a better deal had they moved out to Vienna.

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!