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GregAndrea

Racer by Jump Shack

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I think I'm ok without the type of customer service that makes you come on a forum and yell at someone nearly killed by your product for being an idiot.

Why on earth would you ever buy a rig that you can't loan someone without giving them a briefing on how to do their EPs differently if they don't want to literally die.

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ChrisD2.0

99% of yo have never owned a Racer. Bar none, it's the most comfortable rig going.

I got my first one back in the 90s' then I got the "card" in the mail. Who knows what I'm speaking about now?

That issue aside , John knows what he is doing.

Still the most comfortable harness going.

As far as the continual speculation,...you guys just keep speculating,...it's what yo do best. Leave jumpin to those that actually jump.

And for those that also know; one of the best as far as customer service, but then again yo would have had to have been around the block more than a few times to understand.



We aren't speculating about anything.. did you forget what thread you were in?

Quote

Who knows what I'm speaking about now?



Most of us want to know if you even know that.

I don't need to own something to dislike something about it.

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ChrisD2.0

99% of yo have never owned a Racer. Bar none, it's the most comfortable rig going.

I got my first one back in the 90s' then I got the "card" in the mail. Who knows what I'm speaking about now?

That issue aside , John knows what he is doing.

Still the most comfortable harness going.

As far as the continual speculation,...you guys just keep speculating,...it's what yo do best. Leave jumpin to those that actually jump.

And for those that also know; one of the best as far as customer service, but then again yo would have had to have been around the block more than a few times to understand.



We aren't speculating about anything.. did you forget what thread you were in?

Quote

Who knows what I'm speaking about now?



Most of us want to know if you even know that.

Quote

99% of yo have never owned a Racer.



I don't need to own something to dislike something about it.

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ChrisD2.0

99% of yo have never owned a Racer. Bar none, it's the most comfortable rig going.

I got my first one back in the 90s' then I got the "card" in the mail. Who knows what I'm speaking about now?

That issue aside , John knows what he is doing.

Still the most comfortable harness going.
***Harness is quite comfortable.

Quote


As far as the continual speculation,...you guys just keep speculating,...it's what yo do best. Leave jumpin to those that actually jump.

And for those that also know; one of the best as far as customer service, but then again yo would have had to have been around the block more than a few times to understand.




I owned them when they came out as prototypes.

John sure does know what he is doing. Look at all the money. Also the fatalities and injuries because of being stubborn and avoiding liability and being unaccountable.

Comfortable harness is not an issue if you are whistling in.

Just because you are in love with Johnboy, does not mean these people are speculating. Many of them have more experience than you.

Customer service is a plus. You will need it.

Do you think you are the only one who has been "around the block"?

Struggle Struggle Thump came from many, not just one speculator.


Sorry for incorrect format. I think this gets the idea across.

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richoH


Why on earth would you ever buy a rig that you can't loan someone without giving them a briefing on how to do their EPs differently if they don't want to literally die.



I don't like the double sided RSL. I think it is a hazard even with proper training. People don't respond properly under pressure.

That being said, there is a saying "Borrowed gear kills".

The Racer's double sided RSL isn't the only piece of gear out there that has gotten people in trouble when borrowing gear. Freefly puds with tuck tabs, pull outs, and a number of other things have bit people in the ass with borrowed gear.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

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So, there was the Super Swooper Tandem than morphed into the SST Racer, which became the Racer. For the old timers, how did the "Struggle Struggle Thump" moniker originate? And in what era?

Was there any fundamental issue? Or a tendency to over tighten the pop top to make it look neat?

Looking at old bulletins, one serious reserve-related one that I see has to do with installing the type 12 buffers within the freebag, as someone had to hand-assist reserve deployment when because canopy fabric got caught up with the reserve closing loop & grommets in some way. That was in 1984.

And in '76 there was a change to the way the reserve ripcord housing was tacked -- I think it might bend too tightly over the shoulder for some shorter people for example, which could make for a hard pull.

By the mid '80's I'm guessing, that was "peak Racer"??
Photos old bigways would show something like 25% plus of the rigs with pop tops...

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In about 1976 a short gal named Sabrina from Indiana had the rig riding high on her back. The cable housing was tacked down too high on the early rigs that went to the public too soon. The housing became at a 90 deg angle to the stiffener plate. Hard for the top pin to make a 90. She tugged at the reserve ripcord until impact. With alot of quick talking the issue was dismissed. Her family still remembers. I was not around much after that. Others have spoken of many similar situations with that company. Thus, struggle struggle Thump! Btw, photos of big ways were probably from Mich, Indiana, Ohio, Ill area because those rigs were built in Michigan then. Other photos could have been the Reflex which has a single pin external pilot chute.

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Regardless whether or not the rig is safe, designed well, or comfortable the bigger issue is there support for the design currently.

IMO, since you see so few of them my guess is that your local rigger is not going to be super comfortable servicing, and repacking the reserve. And that is not a situation for me.

Much better choices out there today than ever.

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That is the way I remember it as well. After she went in there were of course other reports of near misses due to hard reserve pulls.

Also 1976 there was a case of the chest strap breaking on a main deployment. I know this one is true, I was there. She ended up hanging from her knees and was able to get upright and stay in the harness. The chest strap had been altered by the young lady jumping it, although the change was supposedly approved by the manufacturer. She was a jump shack employee as I recall.

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Ok RCS, I don't remember you from Salem, but I was there when Pete Myks and Connie Crowton and Chuck Shannon opened that DZ. Your data is correct but I doubt that the manufacturer approved the chest strap change. As the prototypes were released for sale, it became almost a free for all for jumpers to get a job there. The workers could have been trying anything and everything with their rigs. Kind of like inventor want to be workers. Doubt if owners approved what they were doing.

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Hi gb1,

I was not there when the DZ opened. I made my first jump there in 1975. Pete was running the DZ, Chuck was around sometimes. I never met Connie, however I do remember hearing the name, I just don't remember the rest of the story. Then moved to Gregory for awhile. Then back to Salem for a short time and then on to Marine City. I don't know if we ever met as I don't know your name. I was told that the modification was approved. I don't know for sure, that is why I stated "supposedly".

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>So, there was the Super Swooper Tandem than morphed into the SST Racer,
>which became the Racer. For the old timers, how did the "Struggle Struggle Thump"
>moniker originate? And in what era?

IIRC it was mainly due to the prevalence of pull-outs on Racers. There was a spate of "lost handles" and hard pulls due to bridle routing. The problems were fixed fairly quickly but the name stuck.

>(Leeroy said) the pop top claim isn't even a great one anymore. There are multiple
>rigs the have mostly exposed RPC. Javs' and Wings come to mind first.

Yep. I always liked the pop top design on the shortlived Reflex. All the advantages of the Racer pop-top without the strange rigging.

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I owned one of the original prototype SSTs. Had a 1400' reserve total, with ripcord extracted. Decided to clear and open at 300' at terminal. Part of the reason I became my own rigger

I packed lots of Racers on the 80's, all with round reserves. Then Javelins, Vectors, and other one pin rigs came to market and killed the market share for the two pin Racer. Ram sir and reserve one pin rig kind of went together for new buys.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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Hi Terry,

Quote

reserve total



As you & I have discussed this event, there are some factors that are probably the reason for the total. As you told me, the pilot chute cap had 1,000 lb suspension line sleeving for the closing loops rather than the 550 lb suspension line sleeving as per the original Pop Top.

IMO this much larger sleeving should never have been used as, once folded over, it can readily hang up when passing through a Number '0' grommet.

I seriously doubt that you would have had any problem with pilot chute deployment had the correct line sleeving been used.

Now, of course, the question is, how did that 1,000 lb line sleeving come to be used.

However, it is a great bonfire story.

Jerry Baumchen

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DougH

***
Why on earth would you ever buy a rig that you can't loan someone without giving them a briefing on how to do their EPs differently if they don't want to literally die.



I don't like the double sided RSL. I think it is a hazard even with proper training. People don't respond properly under pressure.

That being said, there is a saying "Borrowed gear kills".

The Racer's double sided RSL isn't the only piece of gear out there that has gotten people in trouble when borrowing gear. Freefly puds with tuck tabs, pull outs, and a number of other things have bit people in the ass with borrowed gear.

I see what you're getting at, although all the things you mentioned, you won't bounce if you pull the cutaway handle and then the reserve handle after you have issues with deployment, which is not true of the Racer's double sided RSL.

I hadn't really thought about it before I wrote that post, but as someone who jumps borrowed gear a bit and lend people mine, there are idiosyncrasies about my gear that I need to give people a heads up about, but none I can think of that are likely to kill.

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billvon


IIRC it was mainly due to the prevalence of pull-outs on Racers. There was a spate of "lost handles" and hard pulls due to bridle routing. The problems were fixed fairly quickly but the name stuck.



Correct. I had 2 reserve rides over lost puds. Still a Racer fan but it does appear they have been moved off to the bin with lame responses to problems like the one in the vid.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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OK so I've been out of the game for awhile, packed a few racers (my only round save was on a racer), never felt they were that problematic, although they did kick my OCD up a few notches.

Question1: I think I recall that it is OK to convert the dual RSL to a more standard single riser RSL? In the field. Yes or No?

Question2: If the answer to the above is yes, which seems a pretty darn simple fix, doesn't a brand new 2018 Racer then pretty much automatically move from the "You gonna DIE!!!!!!!!!" bucket to "It's perfectly safe" bucket?

Of course you can always not use the RSL. I never had one in favor of a cypres. I certainly understand wanting every "get it out quicker" feature available, but my own personal preference was to have only ONE "out of my control" reserve activation device to keep decision making under pressure simpler. I am more of a "its not for the reasons we can think of, but for the reasons we CAN'T think of" kind of guy.

__________________________________________________
What would Vic Mackey do?

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crapflinger2000


Of course you can always not use the RSL. I never had one in favor of a cypres. I certainly understand wanting every "get it out quicker" feature available, but my own personal preference was to have only ONE "out of my control" reserve activation device to keep decision making under pressure simpler.



IMPORTANT: RSL's and AAD's are not interchangeable. They serve very different functions.

Also, having the RSL attached should not change your decision making process.
Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

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Question1: I think I recall that it is OK to convert the dual RSL to a more standard single riser RSL? In the field. Yes or No?



Yes, there is an approved alteration for rigs that did not come with a Single sided RSL that can be done by any Master rigger. Most new Racers I have seen since ~2015 have single sided RSLs from the Factory.

I have a November 2018 Racer, unassembled, sitting 3 feet from me right now. Absolutely great rig - Single sided RSL, Stainless steel hardware, spacer foam backpad and legpads, Type 13 harness, double tuck magnetic riser covers, contrast stitching, articulation, etc. I would put it against any 2018 rig on the market today.
=========Shaun ==========


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Unstable

Quote


Question1: I think I recall that it is OK to convert the dual RSL to a more standard single riser RSL? In the field. Yes or No?



Yes, there is an approved alteration for rigs that did not come with a Single sided RSL that can be done by any Master rigger. Most new Racers I have seen since ~2015 have single sided RSLs from the Factory.



I have a November 2018 Racer, unassembled, sitting 3 feet from me right now. Absolutely great rig - Single sided RSL, Stainless steel hardware, spacer foam backpad and legpads, Type 13 harness, double tuck magnetic riser covers, contrast stitching, articulation, etc. I would put it against any 2018 rig on the market today.




Are they still ugly?

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>Why do so many people not understand these two basic things?

Because at first glance, RSL's and AAD's seem to perform a similar function - ensuring a reserve gets deployed.

Around 2002, two separate incidents at Rantoul illustrated the difference between the two. Both cut away from mals. Both had AAD's - but no RSL. Both died.

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Unstable

Quote


Question1: I think I recall that it is OK to convert the dual RSL to a more standard single riser RSL? In the field. Yes or No?



Yes, there is an approved alteration for rigs that did not come with a Single sided RSL that can be done by any Master rigger. Most new Racers I have seen since ~2015 have single sided RSLs from the Factory.

I have a November 2018 Racer, unassembled, sitting 3 feet from me right now. Absolutely great rig - Single sided RSL, Stainless steel hardware, spacer foam backpad and legpads, Type 13 harness, double tuck magnetic riser covers, contrast stitching, articulation, etc. I would put it against any 2018 rig on the market today.



pictures plz

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