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martomat

First jump solo - recommended/possible?

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Hey folks,

im trying to find a possibility to do my first jump solo. So i never jumped before, but I´d like to avoid a tandem jump and also like to avoid the level1/AFF-jump with teachers accompanying me. In other words, I´d like to do my first jump completely on my own.

I know this is forbidden in Germany. Is it legal in any country? If so, would you recommend or strictly discourage me from it?

Thanks and looking forward for a discussion.

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What do you mean by solo?

IF you want to exit the plane alone you have Static line training where for a few first jumps the parachute is deployed automatically after a few meters away from plane. THen around 3rd-4th jump you skydive with 3-4 second delay and deploy on your own. No instructor ever jumps with you. Other than that you have no chance on regular dzs, only if someone would risk their license and give you a parachute to jump with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgTGnLqTgo8

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You may well just be asking an innocent question about the types of instruction available. That's ok.

But to skydivers, it sounds like you are too focused on looking cool rather than being willing to take the time to learn properly, or are too macho to want any instructors touching you in freefall.

As mentioned, one other method of learning is static line (or similar Instructor Assisted Deployment) but you don't get real freefall until you have done well over a number of jumps.

If you want to learn skateboarding on your own, go ahead. But for skydiving, the sensible way to do it is to go through one of the well thought out programs that already exist for students.

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I´d like to avoid a tandem jump and also like to avoid the level1/AFF-jump with teachers accompanying me



Why? What would the possible advantage be?

If it's about money, I'd say you will spend so much more if you continue to skydive that it really makes no difference in the big picture.
If you just want to do it one time as a kind of thrill-ride, I would say it's not worth the risk. Pay for a Tandem skydive.

If you want to become a skydiver, I cannot wrap my head around a possible reason why to skip the jumps with instructors. If you think you'll be to good at it and not need the instructors, you can just show them on your first jumps. It only takes a hand full of jumps before they don't hold on to you anymore. What difference does it make if you will be having thousands of jumps over your skydiving career? (And jumping by yourself is the most boring type of jump to do, anyway...most of the time--I do like to do it every now and then)
I don't think you need to do a tandem jump first, though. Just start with AFF or any of the other methods (IAD, Static Line).

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martomat

Hey folks,

im trying to find a possibility to do my first jump solo. So i never jumped before, but I´d like to avoid a tandem jump and also like to avoid the level1/AFF-jump with teachers accompanying me. In other words, I´d like to do my first jump completely on my own.

I know this is forbidden in Germany. Is it legal in any country? If so, would you recommend or strictly discourage me from it?

Thanks and looking forward for a discussion.




Absolutely no problem, go take a static line course. AFF is more popular right now, but staticline is still a perfectly good way to start jumping. No tandem, jumping completely on your own. And if you're any good, you can start freefall after just a few staticline jumps.

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If you can't find a DZ in Germany that will train you to do static line jumps, ( I find that hard to believe), go to Texel in Holland. I've seen quite a few Germans taking their courses.

Static line was the only option to skydive in the past. Its much cheaper than AFF, and is a perfectly good way to learn to skydive. I've had SL students graduating to FF in a weekend, and going to 12000 solo within 10 jumps total.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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obelixtim

If you can't find a DZ in Germany that will train you to do static line jumps, ( I find that hard to believe), go to Texel in Holland. I've seen quite a few Germans taking their courses.

Static line was the only option to skydive in the past. Its much cheaper than AFF, and is a perfectly good way to learn to skydive. I've had SL students graduating to FF in a weekend, and going to 12000 solo within 10 jumps total.



Many a skydiver started out this way, Static Line.
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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martomat

Hey folks,
I know this is forbidden in Germany. Is it legal in any country? If so, would you recommend or strictly discourage me from it?



I have never done a Tandem and my first jump was 20 years ago in Germany. It was a static line (german: Automatensprung) just for fun. A year later i startet my static line progression (german: konventionelle Ausbildung). There a still plenty of places that offer static line in Germany. The faster way to learn to skydive is AFF though.
If it does not cost anything you are the product.

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FrancoR

***Hey folks,
I know this is forbidden in Germany. Is it legal in any country? If so, would you recommend or strictly discourage me from it?



I have never done a Tandem and my first jump was 20 years ago in Germany. It was a static line (german: Automatensprung) just for fun. A year later i startet my static line progression (german: konventionelle Ausbildung). There a still plenty of places that offer static line in Germany. The faster way to learn to skydive is AFF though.

That point is debateable.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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martomat

Hey folks,

im trying to find a possibility to do my first jump solo. So i never jumped before, but I´d like to avoid a tandem jump and also like to avoid the level1/AFF-jump with teachers accompanying me. In other words, I´d like to do my first jump completely on my own.

I know this is forbidden in Germany. Is it legal in any country? If so, would you recommend or strictly discourage me from it?

Thanks and looking forward for a discussion.



You need to be a little clearer what you're looking for.

Is there a way for a civilian to just make a big freefall jump as their first jump? No. Not that I'm aware of. There are good reasons for that.
Can you jump out of an aircraft on your own as part of a course that teaches you to skydive? Absolutely - it's called static line, BUT you're not going into freefall as such. Your parachute will be pulled automatically by a line that connects to the aircraft.

Look at it this way:
Tandem: An instructor is there to help you through freefall and canopy flight.
AFF: Instructors will help you through freefall, but you're on your own under canopy.
Static line: There's no freefall but you exit the plane on your own and under canopy.

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well, thanks for all the answers. i think that quote resumes best all your thoughts.

yoink


Look at it this way:
Tandem: An instructor is there to help you through freefall and canopy flight.
AFF: Instructors will help you through freefall, but you're on your own under canopy.
Static line: There's no freefall but you exit the plane on your own and under canopy.



indeed the reason why i´m looking for this is getting the expected "kick" but not as an end in itself. i just try to deal with some mental problems that i don´t want to elaborate. i´ve been doing this kick-search for longer time with succesfull results so i believe it to be sensible to give a freefall jump a try. otherwise i would totally agree with your concerns.

gowlerk

Come to see us in Gimli MB, Canada. We offer a solo first jump course weekly in the summer.


well, great, i will keep that in mind although its out of europe. :) are there any other countries?

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indeed the reason why i´m looking for this is getting the expected "kick" but not as an end in itself. i just try to deal with some mental problems that i don´t want to elaborate.



A few reasons why that's not a good idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9Ly-tKPUhA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN3pBHbg3uY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd2pX0rM4p4

Aber mal ehrlich, Mann! It almost seems like you are purposefully trying to get a reaction: "mental issues, want to get a kick, don't need an instructor".. If so, I guess you are suceeding.

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mbohu

Aber mal ehrlich, Mann! It almost seems like you are purposefully trying to get a reaction


No, i don´t have time for that, i´ve got an idea and try to get trustful information - and dropzone forum is a good place for trustworth information.

mbohu I watched your videos. As i´m a layman i wonder if the turbulances may only lead to panic but are not really dangerous, i´m not sure.

In AFF-jumps, the skydiver is hold by the teachers quite loose, the persons could easily tear apart. so my friend told me, the reason why solo first jumps are forbidden is more by actuarial reasons. Can you share that opinion? I won´t do a solo first jump if it isn´t safe.

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martomat


In AFF-jumps, the skydiver is hold by the teachers quite loose, the persons could easily tear apart. so my friend told me, the reason why solo first jumps are forbidden is more by actuarial reasons. Can you share that opinion?



They might have to let go in some cases, but in 99% of flights they'll fly right back up to you, take grips and keep you stable. Without them you'd probably fumble and tumble or go into a spin until deployment.

martomat

I won´t do a solo first jump if it isn´t safe.


It isn't.

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martomat


In AFF-jumps, the skydiver is hold by the teachers quite loose, the persons could easily tear apart.



In AFF, you are TRAINED to do everything yourself. Including how to pull, and what to do if tumbling or spinning.

If you jumped solo, with no prior experience in the air or wind tunnel, you would probably tumble or spin.... 90% chance? 95%? I don't know.

Depending on what the student does, that could be solved quickly (e.g., by deploying a parachute right away) or be expensive (losing equipment if using the reserve parachute) or be dangerous (having a parachute open by automatic activation device very close to the ground). In any case, there would likely be little learning about freefall control achieved.

So you have instructors there to help you, who will be there (as already stated) 99% of the time. Especially if you don't freak out and do something crazy.

So jumping with 2 instructors is a lot safer.

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martomat


mbohu I watched your videos. As i´m a layman i wonder if the turbulances may only lead to panic but are not really dangerous, i´m not sure.

In AFF-jumps, the skydiver is hold by the teachers quite loose, the persons could easily tear apart. so my friend told me, the reason why solo first jumps are forbidden is more by actuarial reasons. Can you share that opinion? I won´t do a solo first jump if it isn´t safe.



The 'turbulences' are actually instability. The students are completely out of control.
As a comparison, is it dangerous for a car to be spinning out of control?
On a wide open parking lot, no. On a crowded road, yes.

However, in a car, as long as you don't hit anything, you will stop eventually.
Not the case when you jump.

A large part of early instruction is how to maintain stability and regain it if lost. Pulling while spinning or tumbling can be very dangerous. Getting disoriented while spinning or tumbling and not pulling at all is worse.

If a student is doing well in freefall, the instructor may hold on loosely, sometimes with only one hand. Deliberately 'tearing away' would be possible, but if the instructor is doing their job properly, they will be back on the student (and won't let go again) in a very short time.

Some people do fairly well in freefall from the start. Others take a few jumps to get it. While there are some indicators that can give a hint one way or another, there's no real way to tell for sure.

If by 'actuarial reasons', your friend means 'because you can very easily get hurt or die if you screw it up', then yes.

There is virtually no one that will allow you to do a solo freefall jump as a first jump. That, in and of itself, should tell you something.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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