skyfox2007 22 #26 November 10, 2018 It's possible? What are you basing this assertion on? This is why I suggested to Mike Mullins - a few months back - that items like these go to a referendum. We could just as easily put the museum to a vote during this past USPA election cycle by including a "go" or "no go" on the ballot. -JD- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeeroyJenkins 2 #27 November 10, 2018 skyfox2007It's possible? What are you basing this assertion on? This is why I suggested to Mike Mullins - a few months back - that items like these go to a referendum. We could just as easily put the museum to a vote during this past USPA election cycle by including a "go" or "no go" on the ballot. -JD- There are huge problems with letting everyone vote on something they know nothing about or do not know all the details of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #28 November 10, 2018 skyfox2007This is why I suggested to Mike Mullins - a few months back - that items like these go to a referendum. We could just as easily put the museum to a vote during this past USPA election cycle by including a "go" or "no go" on the ballot. There is no referendum procedure in the USPA charter or by-laws. The vote you propose might be advisory, but would not be binding. --Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyfox2007 22 #29 November 11, 2018 I feel the average skydiver doesn't much care for the goings on up at the USPA precisely because they haven't a say in important decisions. Our community isn't immune to cynicism. Giving some decision-making power back to our members might prove incentive enough for them to do the research and make an informed decision. Take a look at some of this past elections ballots. Some states routinely hold referendums on important issues. So the idea is proven valid. If a state can organize such a vote that engages tens of millions of people, it shouldn't be that hard for the USPA to do it for a few thousand. Didn't we just organize an electronic vote our most recent BOD election? How hard would it be to add a vote to that same ballot? No more guessing about what the community - as a whole - wants. -JD- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyfox2007 22 #30 November 11, 2018 You're right, the current bylaws don't allow it. But then again, change is never easy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baronn 111 #31 November 12, 2018 "Huge Problems, eh?" What problems are you referring to? Are you saying that members aren't qualified to make a decision on the dues they are required to pay to retain their membership? The only "Huge Problem" I see here are elected members making decisions on funds that are not theirs and funding a failed endeavor that was never suppose to be funded with members dues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeeroyJenkins 2 #32 November 12, 2018 ***"Huge Problems, eh?" What problems are you referring to? Are you saying that members aren't qualified to make a decision on the dues they are required to pay to retain their membership? The only "Huge Problem" I see here are elected members making decisions on funds that are not theirs and funding a failed endeavor that was never suppose to be funded with members dues.[/quote Average voters, they are and always will be an issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyfox2007 22 #33 November 12, 2018 Wow, it's not everyday you meet someone who's cynical about the cynics. Yeah, the average USPA member (voter) is probably cynical and that is a problem for our community. But that same average member is also responsible for the majority of USPA's funding and always will be - like it or not. -JD- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baronn 111 #34 November 12, 2018 Spoken as only a true Liberal wude. Clearly you don't believe the average individual has the ability to make decisions for themselves. What makes you think anyone on the board has done any research on this? Clearly they haven't. If they had, they'd have found the same thing that I and many others here have discovered. The only plan that is firmly in place rite now, is to induct folks into an imaginary Hall of Fame in an imaginary Museum that has never materialized in almost 40 yrs. Every skydiver I know wants this to get done. What we don't want is to be scammed by a group that is not being forthright about what exactly the funds they are suppose to be responsible for, are being used. Funny how holding people accountable for their actions leads to clarity.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,903 #35 November 12, 2018 QuoteSpoken as only a true Liberal wude. Ok, are going to get all SC now? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #36 November 12, 2018 QuoteI feel the average skydiver doesn't much care for the goings on up at the USPA precisely because they haven't a say in important decisions. I think the average skydiver doesn't much care about USPA, period. They are too busy skydiving. And as long as the magazine comes, their dues aren't ridiculously high and things like Nationals continue to happen, they're good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeeroyJenkins 2 #37 November 12, 2018 skyfox2007Wow, it's not everyday you meet someone who's cynical about the cynics. Yeah, the average USPA member (voter) is probably cynical and that is a problem for our community. But that same average member is also responsible for the majority of USPA's funding and always will be - like it or not. -JD- It has nothing to do with people being cynics. I also, am not a cynic. I work in politics, average voters are and will always be an issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baronn 111 #38 November 12, 2018 Perhaps that may have been true in the past but, as the poor decisions our elected members continue to make are revealed, It seems more are waking up and voicing their displeasure. This kind of a awakening tends to be healthy. Expecting the general membership to just "accept" whatever decisions elected members are making and be happy with them is, IMO, not acceptable.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeeroyJenkins 2 #39 November 12, 2018 baronnPerhaps that may have been true in the past but, as the poor decisions our elected members continue to make are revealed, It seems more are waking up and voicing their displeasure. This kind of a awakening tends to be healthy. Expecting the general membership to just "accept" whatever decisions elected members are making and be happy with them is, IMO, not acceptable.... I have to disagree, I would bet money the majority of USPA members don't know or care what the board is up to unless in negative affects them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #40 November 12, 2018 QuotePerhaps that may have been true in the past but, as the poor decisions our elected members continue to make are revealed, It seems more are waking up and voicing their displeasure. Nope. Still no one cares. Call your RD or a Board member. Ask them how many other people have called to "voice their displeasure." You will probably hear a number very close to zero. Better yet, go to a DZ. Ask everyone on the load "are you sick and tired of the poor decisions made by our BOD?" You'll get blank stares. Maybe one person will ask "who, you mean BJ Worth or someone?" (Bitching on the Internet doesn't count.) QuoteExpecting the general membership to just "accept" whatever decisions elected members are making and be happy with them is, IMO, not acceptable.... They are free to object. They generally do not. Just because you are angry doesn't mean anyone else is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyfox2007 22 #41 November 14, 2018 Maybe at your DZ, but folks at the DZ's I've frequented have been vocal about the goings on: the past election, the licensing changes, the Lodi Investigation, etc. No prompting on my part required. Walk into manifest or into the hangar and there they are huddled over a cup of coffee and venting there angst before the first load. We might be cynical about speaking up, but folks are dissatisfied. Contact my board member? Hahaha...two calls and two emails this past summer and no response. I'll qualify this comment and say that the new board deserves a chance before anyone passes judgement. So I'll give it another shot... Billvon, you're too pessimistic about the USPA membership not caring and too optimistic about our previous collection of board members. Dare I say you need to get out a bit more. One DZ in SD is not representative of the entire community. One more thing: the internet is here to stay and billions of people across the world are using it to communicate (or bitch) each and every day. Two billion people had a facebook account as of last year and that number is still rising in spite Mark Zucherberg's congressional disposition and related privacy concerns. Funny - or ironic - to see someone frequent an online forum and chastise someone else for doing the same. -JD- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeeroyJenkins 2 #42 November 14, 2018 skyfox2007Maybe at your DZ, but folks at the DZ's I've frequented have been vocal about the goings on: the past election, the licensing changes, the Lodi Investigation, etc. No prompting on my part required. Walk into manifest or into the hangar and there they are huddled over a cup of coffee and venting there angst before the first load. We might be cynical about speaking up, but folks are dissatisfied. Contact my board member? Hahaha...two calls and two emails this past summer and no response. I'll qualify this comment and say that the new board deserves a chance before anyone passes judgement. So I'll give it another shot... Billvon, you're too pessimistic about the USPA membership not caring and too optimistic about our previous collection of board members. Dare I say you need to get out a bit more. One DZ in SD is not representative of the entire community. One more thing: the internet is here to stay and billions of people across the world are using it to communicate (or bitch) each and every day. Two billion people had a facebook account as of last year and that number is still rising in spite Mark Zucherberg's congressional disposition and related privacy concerns. Funny - or ironic - to see someone frequent an online forum and chastise someone else for doing the same. -JD- In billvons defense, forms are generally not representative of the general populace. They generally end up with the loudest members. As for your huddle, and like you said, one DZ is not representative of the community. I have only been to 9 DZs thought the US on both coasts and I have never head anyone so much as talking about the USPA unless it involved licensing, SIM, or ratings. Sorry you have a less than responsive board member. Mine is a text away. I cant find active membership stats for this forum but I would guess the amount of active jumpers that come here is pretty small. Most people myself included this this forum is an insane disaster full of salty old jumpers. That being said its also entertaining and kills time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 369 #43 November 14, 2018 skyfox2007Contact my board member? Hahaha...two calls and two emails this past summer and no response. I'll qualify this comment and say that the new board deserves a chance before anyone passes judgement. So I'll give it another shot... Sorry you had a bad experience. I would never dream of not being responsive to a member - whether in my region or not. If you can't get the help you need, I suggest contacting the president of the board or the executive director. Often a call from one of them kickstarts action. You can also call me. I handle the gulf region but I'm happy to assist any member in any way at any time, 24/7. It's what I signed up for so it's what I am prepared to do. I encourage anyone who holds a seat on the board to do the same. My number is 832-630-1213. Add me to your contacts.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypilotA1 67 #44 November 14, 2018 chuckakers***Contact my board member? Hahaha...two calls and two emails this past summer and no response. I'll qualify this comment and say that the new board deserves a chance before anyone passes judgement. So I'll give it another shot... Sorry you had a bad experience. I would never dream of not being responsive to a member - whether in my region or not. If you can't get the help you need, I suggest contacting the president of the board or the executive director. Often a call from one of them kickstarts action. You can also call me. I handle the gulf region but I'm happy to assist any member in any way at any time, 24/7. It's what I signed up for so it's what I am prepared to do. I encourage anyone who holds a seat on the board to do the same. My number is 832-630-1213. Add me to your contacts. This is the proper response from a USPA Board member Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #45 November 14, 2018 chuckakersSorry you had a bad experience. I would never dream of not being responsive to a member - whether in my region or not. Yep, I have responded to members outside my region when their RD did not. I can't imagine not doing this if needed. It's, you know, like ... easy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #46 November 20, 2018 An astounding number (5899) voted in the BOD election Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3331 108 #47 November 20, 2018 USPA has to be financially secure for the next big Lawsuit. We always have one coming, either from a student that sprains an ankle, or worse the next Skydiving airplane crash. Bill Ottley was always concerned about a huge Lawsuit with slick lawyers for the plaintiff that could wipe out USPA. It's already happened to Drop zones. The USPA Membership elects the USPA BOD and has nothing to do with the Skydiving Museum.I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #48 November 21, 2018 Well there are over 30,000 could give a shit less who is on the board.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #49 November 21, 2018 DBCOOPER An astounding number (5899) voted in the BOD election The lack of participation in the vote can be seen as an endorsement for how things are. I see nothing wrong with that.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeeroyJenkins 2 #50 November 21, 2018 DBCOOPERWell there are over 30,000 could give a shit less who is on the board. Like myself and others have said, most skydivers don't care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
