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20_kN

Canopy options for wingsuiting?

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I have used a Spectre 120 for the last 1000 wingsuit jumps loaded at 1.9 2 line twists zero chops, flying Vampire Alpine, Havok Carve, Strix, nice snively on heading openings, so all I would say is body position is 90% 7 cell is the rest. Winsguit market is now big enough for manufacturers to produce wingsuit specific canopies so they have, but there are already some great mains out there that do the job. So if your on a budget there are still good used kit available that's perfectly safe, if you want to buy new great but demo first as these designs are all new and if your going to shell out make sure you love it.

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40 minutes ago, verticalflyer said:

I have used a Spectre 120 for the last 1000 wingsuit jumps loaded at 1.9 2 line twists zero chops, flying Vampire Alpine, Havok Carve, Strix, nice snively on heading openings, so all I would say is body position is 90% 7 cell is the rest. Winsguit market is now big enough for manufacturers to produce wingsuit specific canopies so they have, but there are already some great mains out there that do the job. So if your on a budget there are still good used kit available that's perfectly safe, if you want to buy new great but demo first as these designs are all new and if your going to shell out make sure you love it.

sure. however I would recommend the 9c's  Pilot9 or Sabre2s over the 7c Storm. Spectres are fine for sure

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17 hours ago, birdynamnam said:

exactly. I just have one jump in the P7 and I felt the long snive phase and then also the more abrupt final stage. Thats why I say that Atair really got this perfect, the almost non existing snivel, then a smooth and relatively soft final phase under full control. What I also like about the Winx is that it is trimmed flat so if you get linetwists it tends to just hang there over your head and does not easely get aggressive

The WinX absolutely can dive on you if the risers are uneven enough. As I mentioned before, all canopies can and will dive if the risers are uneven enough, just some are a lot more tolerent to it than others (e.g. reserve, PD Horizon, Epicene which are all square planforms). I have seen wingsuiters chop diving line twists on a WinX. It can happen.

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21 hours ago, 20kN said:

Yes, the WinX opens faster than many canopies, but that is a good thing for wingsuiting. You dont want a lot of snivle on a WS canopy. The best WS canopies open fast. PD even talks about this in the manual for the Horizon. The Pilot 7 snivles a lot, which may feel nice as the opening is very soft, but the longer the snivle the more time you have for you to rotate under the canopy producing body twists. By contrast, canopies like the Epicene Pro, Horizon, Triathlon and WinX all open somewhat fast and as a result are less likely to produce linetwists, and when linetwists do occur they tend to be less serious. Also not sure what you're talking about with the P7 opening fast at the end of the snivle. Mine does not do that. It opens quite fast at terminal, but at subterminal the openings are very slow.

And that's why I said that I don't like the Pilot7 for wingsuiting. Because that long snivel gives you more time to make an error( twist shoulders or something). While the Kraken (I haven't jumped the Epicene or Horizon) has a nice quick opening thanks to the extra vents in the slider and center cell and gives you leas chance for error. Also the Pilot7 is more elliptical than a wingsuit canopy should be, which makes it more fun to fly but that's why it spins more.

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2 hours ago, 20kN said:

The WinX absolutely can dive on you if the risers are uneven enough. As I mentioned before, all canopies can and will dive if the risers are uneven enough, just some are a lot more tolerent to it than others (e.g. reserve, PD Horizon, Epicene which are all square planforms). I have seen wingsuiters chop diving line twists on a WinX. It can happen.

absolutely, with any canopy if WL is high dives and then chop's will happen. Uneven risers due to bad body position during deployment, reaching for risers before appropriate. If you want a chop you can get it

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2 hours ago, val4o said:

And that's why I said that I don't like the Pilot7 for wingsuiting. Because that long snivel gives you more time to make an error( twist shoulders or something). While the Kraken (I haven't jumped the Epicene or Horizon) has a nice quick opening thanks to the extra vents in the slider and center cell and gives you leas chance for error. Also the Pilot7 is more elliptical than a wingsuit canopy should be, which makes it more fun to fly but that's why it spins more.

would love to try out the Kraken, having owned their canopies previously. They are experts on soft ultra soft  openings so interesting to see if they got this one right for wingsuiting. I found the Pilot7 really boring compared to the Winx. Big difference in flying experience. We have'nt seen any chops of P7's here at all. It's primarely Storms that gets chopped ;) I think we have ~ 60% Winx's, 20% P7's and the rest is Pilot9s Spectres Storms and Sabres and then a single Epicene user

Edited by birdynamnam

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2 hours ago, val4o said:

And that's why I said that I don't like the Pilot7 for wingsuiting. Because that long snivel gives you more time to make an error( twist shoulders or something). While the Kraken (I haven't jumped the Epicene or Horizon) has a nice quick opening thanks to the extra vents in the slider and center cell and gives you leas chance for error. Also the Pilot7 is more elliptical than a wingsuit canopy should be, which makes it more fun to fly but that's why it spins more.

I agree with what you said. However, the WinX is just as elliptical. Both are semi-elliptical canopies. The only common WS canopies that are truly square that I know of are the Horizon, Epicene, Epicene Pro and Triathlon. I am not sure if the Kraken is, but I suspect it likely is not as I dont think NZ Aerosports would make a canopy that is super boring to fly.

21 minutes ago, birdynamnam said:

would love to try out the Kraken, having owned their canopies previously. They are experts on soft ultra soft  openings so interesting to see if they got this one right for wingsuiting. I found the Pilot7 really boring compared to the Winx. Big difference in flying experience. We have'nt seen any chops of P7's here at all. It's primarely Storms that gets chopped ;) I think we have ~ 60% Winx's, 20% P7's and the rest is Pilot9s Spectres Storms and Sabres and then a single Epicene user


I've seen people chop Pilot 7s. Basically every common canopy made has been cutaway by someone at some point. I find it interesting you think the P7 is boring compared to the WinX. To me, they are both pretty similar and the P7 and WinX are the two most sporty WS canopies out there. If you think the P7 is boring you'd probably fall into a coma flying the Epicene or Horizon. Those canopies fly like a school bus with flat tires, but intentionally so as they are mostly intended to open really well and not spin you up every time you get linetwists.

Edited by 20kN

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1 hour ago, 20kN said:

I agree with what you said. However, the WinX is just as elliptical. Both are semi-elliptical canopies. The only common WS canopies that are truly square that I know of are the Horizon, Epicene, Epicene Pro and Triathlon. I am not sure if the Kraken is, but I suspect it likely is not as I dont think NZ Aerosports would make a canopy that is super boring to fly.


I've seen people chop Pilot 7s. Basically every common canopy made has been cutaway by someone at some point. I find it interesting you think the P7 is boring compared to the WinX. To me, they are both pretty similar and the P7 and WinX are the two most sporty WS canopies out there. If you think the P7 is boring you'd probably fall into a coma flying the Epicene or Horizon. Those canopies fly like a school bus with flat tires, but intentionally so as they are mostly intended to open really well and not spin you up every time you get linetwists.

I am a wingsuit'er - but more than that I am a canopy guy. Not affiliated with anyone of the makers. I want the best, so I tried all the canopies and learn not from forums but from actual flying them. IMO the Winx is the best. The P7 or P9 would be my second choice.  Not into F-111 anymore and yes they ones you mention is flying pretty much as you say. Have not tried the Kraken, it looks very interesting indeed having several novel features and having owned and loved Icarus canopies previously I will sooner or later try it out. 

 

PS the Kraken is looking rectangular: https://www.nzaerosports.com/kraken-review-a-kraken-good-wingsuit-canopy/

Edited by birdynamnam

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On 9/1/2019 at 1:10 AM, RolandForbes said:

The WinX is completely suitable for jumps without prom dresses!

1st three jumps on my new WINX (166), all slick/terminal. My conclusion: compared to my 170 Storm, WOW! SO much more GLIDE, so much more FLARE. The brake lines were pretty slack and didn't "grab" until about half brakes and still had ample flare(on a fairly windless day)! I'll be hooking up the Race suit next time out. 

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On 10/11/2018 at 1:22 AM, johnmatrix said:

If you don't get the latest design being marketed on Facebook you will certainly go in. Anything less than the newest model brand new is black death.

Refreshing to see that MANY on this thread are cynical / realists that are willing to deal with the reality that for aeroplane jumps most WS specific canopies are marketing tools first and flying tools second.

 

I use an old triathlon and I'm pretty sure that any off-heading openings are caused by the pilot, not the canopy.

 

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2 hours ago, kleggo said:

Refreshing to see that MANY on this thread are cynical / realists that are willing to deal with the reality that for aeroplane jumps most WS specific canopies are marketing tools first and flying tools second.

 

I use an old triathlon and I'm pretty sure that any off-heading openings are caused by the pilot, not the canopy.

 

this is an old horse you are beating. Sabre1's are fine. Triathlons are fine. And they are! If you like your Tri, then go on. The latest canopies that are truely developed for wingsuiting, is, a step forward, even if you dont like it. THey are better than you tri in many areas. I know, I have 500+ jumps in a tri.

You are correct in one area, that PD made commercials suddenly that the Storm was awesome for wingsuiting and they had some pro's push it to people; it turned out it was certainly not one of the better choices 

 

So here we are again; the Tri is good for wingsuiting as a low cost choice. The Sabre1 also. Most knows this to be very true. Then the latest designs made directly for wingsuiting purposes; some people (mostly those who fly Tri's and Sabre1's hahaha :-) ) has the opinion for some reason, that those new canopies are just marketing and wasted developments. Most people who knows both sides knows that is not true.

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22 hours ago, birdynamnam said:

this is an old horse you are beating. Sabre1's are fine. Triathlons are fine. And they are! If you like your Tri, then go on. The latest canopies that are truely developed for wingsuiting, is, a step forward, even if you dont like it. THey are better than you tri in many areas. I know, I have 500+ jumps in a tri.

You are correct in one area, that PD made commercials suddenly that the Storm was awesome for wingsuiting and they had some pro's push it to people; it turned out it was certainly not one of the better choices 

 

So here we are again; the Tri is good for wingsuiting as a low cost choice. The Sabre1 also. Most knows this to be very true. Then the latest designs made directly for wingsuiting purposes; some people (mostly those who fly Tri's and Sabre1's hahaha :-) ) has the opinion for some reason, that those new canopies are just marketing and wasted developments. Most people who knows both sides knows that is not true.

I don't completely disagree with you.

My triathlon is not the BEST tool, it is an ADEQUATE tool.

Cheers

Craig

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