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Maddingo

Why is it necessary to pull both handles

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Today I had an interesting situation. After deployment my canopy went into a couple of linetwists. Nothing serious, I had good altitude, kicked it out all fine.

When I landed and returned to packing area I noticed that my RSL was disconnected. I am 100% positive it was in place prior to exit, confirming that a simple linetwist can cause a RSL malfunction.

Just a reminder to always perform full EP's if you get into a sticky situation, don't rely on tech. Anybody else experienced anything similar?

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left 3 ring, first ring turning second ring turning, right 3 ring first ring turning second ring turning, rsl ring connected to the rsl tape... standard.

It was also a solo exit and I did not bump a thing. I have it recorded from 2 cameras. Will check the 2nd one tomorrow.

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Maddingo

left 3 ring, first ring turning second ring turning, right 3 ring first ring turning second ring turning, rsl ring connected to the rsl tape... standard.



I'm not sure what the point of "turning" is.

Did you check to see if the RSL pin was fully seated in its socket? It's possible to partially close the shackle so it appears correct at first glance but will disconnect under load.

--Mark

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mark

***left 3 ring, first ring turning second ring turning, right 3 ring first ring turning second ring turning, rsl ring connected to the rsl tape... standard.



Did you check to see if the RSL pin was fully seated in its socket? It's possible to partially close the shackle so it appears correct at first glance but will disconnect under load.

--Mark

I think thats the point, even though you're "sure" its right, things happen. Pull your handles.
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ajay

******left 3 ring, first ring turning second ring turning, right 3 ring first ring turning second ring turning, rsl ring connected to the rsl tape... standard.



Did you check to see if the RSL pin was fully seated in its socket? It's possible to partially close the shackle so it appears correct at first glance but will disconnect under load.

--Mark

I think thats the point, even though you're "sure" its right, things happen. Pull your handles.

Exactly. The 'third degree' about whether the 'pin was fully seated' is not the issue. The original poster was simply illustrating the answer to the question in his subject line.



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Maddingo

The rotation of rings indicates there is no additional friction.

Checked my first camera where the rsl is normally connected, see picture.



I'm not sure what sort of "friction" you are talking about.

When checking your rings, the main thing to be looking at is whether the rings have become distorted or warped (out of shape), which may prevent them from releasing properly.

Also you should be looking at the webbing, the closing loop, grommets, and the end of the housing, as well as the cutaway cable itself to make sure it has no burrs, dings, or bits of wire sticking out that might catch on the closing loop.

Rotating the rings, by itself, does nothing.

Also, its a good idea to disconnect the risers every now and again and flex the webbing around the rings to negate any "setting" that can occur after repeated opening shocks.

Ask a rigger to show you how to check your gear, and the things to look out for.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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obelixtim

***The rotation of rings indicates there is no additional friction.

Checked my first camera where the rsl is normally connected, see picture.



I'm not sure what sort of "friction" you are talking about.

When checking your rings, the main thing to be looking at is whether the rings have become distorted or warped (out of shape), which may prevent them from releasing properly.

Also you should be looking at the webbing, the closing loop, grommets, and the end of the housing, as well as the cutaway cable itself to make sure it has no burrs, dings, or bits of wire sticking out that might catch on the closing loop.

Rotating the rings, by itself, does nothing.

Also, its a good idea to disconnect the risers every now and again and flex the webbing around the rings to negate any "setting" that can occur after repeated opening shocks.

Ask a rigger to show you how to check your gear, and the things to look out for.

And you can ask your rigger what the difference is b/w a closing loop and type 2a.

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obelixtim

***The rotation of rings indicates there is no additional friction.

Checked my first camera where the rsl is normally connected, see picture.



I'm not sure what sort of "friction" you are talking about.

When checking your rings, the main thing to be looking at is whether the rings have become distorted or warped (out of shape), which may prevent them from releasing properly.

Also you should be looking at the webbing, the closing loop, grommets, and the end of the housing, as well as the cutaway cable itself to make sure it has no burrs, dings, or bits of wire sticking out that might catch on the closing loop.

Rotating the rings, by itself, does nothing.

Also, its a good idea to disconnect the risers every now and again and flex the webbing around the rings to negate any "setting" that can occur after repeated opening shocks.

Ask a rigger to show you how to check your gear, and the things to look out for.

With modern gear the ring turning only serves to introduce dirt and grease to rings, causing more harm than good. Every time you touch the ring bare handed you introduce grease to it, which is good in trapping the dirt. When you rotate the ring you smear that dirt in to other rings and fabric of the riser, potentially accelerating the wear of risers.

Obviously all this is highly theoretical and something that is hard to quantify but there is NO reason to turn the rings during your check.

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>left 3 ring, first ring turning second ring turning, right 3 ring first ring turning second ring turning . . .

Spinning your rings:

1) gets them dirtier
2) wears them faster
3) doesn't tell you anything anyway.

On cad-plated hardware, in fact, you'll often wear off the plating, leaving base metal to corrode faster. It's in general a bad idea.

To check your 3-rings, look at them or touch them. If you want, pull lightly on the top ring. This both tells you that the release cable is in place, and ensures your 3-rings are in the right place if you can't see them (i.e. you're wearing your rig and your helmet is getting in the way of seeing it.)

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Since everybody is getting into the minutiae, I suppose turning the rings might make it easier to tell if they've been stretched/warped/oblonged. Varying the direction in which they take the load of opening shock may help prevent them from becoming so. Whether that's better or worse than the grease/dirt/wear issue is something I'm sure one of you will speculate on.

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dudeman17

Since everybody is getting into the minutiae, I suppose turning the rings might make it easier to tell if they've been stretched/warped/oblonged. Varying the direction in which they take the load of opening shock may help prevent them from becoming so. Whether that's better or worse than the grease/dirt/wear issue is something I'm sure one of you will speculate on.



No need to speculate. When was the last time you know of rings stretching or warping? Other than RW-1 rings made in 1981.

--Mark

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dudeman17

Since everybody is getting into the minutiae, I suppose turning the rings might make it easier to tell if they've been stretched/warped/oblonged. Varying the direction in which they take the load of opening shock may help prevent them from becoming so. Whether that's better or worse than the grease/dirt/wear issue is something I'm sure one of you will speculate on.



There was a bad batch of rings a while back (like decades ago).

There hasn't been a problem with rings ovalling since.

None at all.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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>Since everybody is getting into the minutiae, I suppose turning the rings might make it
>easier to tell if they've been stretched/warped/oblonged.

It might - but that never happens with modern rings.

It's fairly easy to tell when someone spins their rings a lot on cad-plated hardware. There's a circle of corrosion around the front of the middle ring from sliding against the large ring hundreds of times. You can also see the corrosion rubbing off inside the riser webbing that holds the middle ring. Since it's very visible from the front of the rig, you can tell exactly who didn't get the memo.

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A long time ago when I was a rigger a tandem had a chop and reserve deployment.

The main risers came back with the RSL missing. Considering all the possible factors I tore my hair out for a bit trying to figure out why it had come off and if the snap shackle (and any others still on the rigs) was defective.

After awhile I gave up and put it in the "S**t happens" bucket and moved on since I could detect no obvious problem with the rest of the RSL shackles.

TL/DR: Apparently the shackles are not reliable in terms of staying shackled so yes, pull both handles.

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What would Vic Mackey do?

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chuckakers

***The rotation of rings indicates there is no additional friction.



Every generation of skydivers has people who "create" truth. Whoever taught you that either created that truth or was provided it by someone else who did.

I was taught to rotate the rings when I got my first three ring equipped rig.
I have since taught myself not to rotate the rings.
You have to be careful who you get your "truth" from.

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Just to get back to the original topic: I think another good reason to pull both handles is that in a stressful situation like an unrecoverable canopy malfunction you want to have one well-practised procedure that works in all cases.

You don't want to be wasting time and mental energy trying to decide which variant of your emergency procedures you should implement.

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