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Ron

Re: USPA responsibility for suicides [was: tandem incident]

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Moved from Incidents:

kleggo

******I Agree...anybody can speack with someone in this DZ and try to find any explanation or data more accurate?



207-339-1520. Let us know what you find out.

LOL
Perfect response.

What, you don't think the USPA should be checking on an instructor they licensed at a DZ they approved via the GM system?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Ron

*********I Agree...anybody can speack with someone in this DZ and try to find any explanation or data more accurate?



207-339-1520. Let us know what you find out.

LOL
Perfect response.

What, you don't think the USPA should be checking on an instructor they licensed at a DZ they approved via the GM system?

They are, as they always do.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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chuckakers

************I Agree...anybody can speack with someone in this DZ and try to find any explanation or data more accurate?



207-339-1520. Let us know what you find out.

LOL
Perfect response.

What, you don't think the USPA should be checking on an instructor they licensed at a DZ they approved via the GM system?

They are, as they always do.

You would think they would want to communicate that info to all the other instructors they certified. You know, instead of a USPA BOD member telling the membership to do the work.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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You would think they would want to communicate that info to all the other instructors they certified.




Just what info would you want them to communicate? There was an incident that very likely was a suicide. Do you think it is USPA's job to report this to you?

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gowlerk

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You would think they would want to communicate that info to all the other instructors they certified.




Just what info would you want them to communicate? There was an incident that very likely was a suicide. Do you think it is USPA's job to report this to you?



Let's see.... Do I think the organization that licensed the instructor and that claims to "certify" certain DZ's as safe and that claims to regulate skydiving in the US so the FAA stays away to give information relevant to a fatal tandem accident that involved a USPA licensed instructor at a USPA approved DZ?

Ah, yes.

I'd also like to see what the USPA is going to do if it was a suicide. I mean after all they require at least a Class 3 FAA medical and depression is one of the questions asked on that medical.

But as of right now, we only have YOUR speculation it was a suicide. Maybe the GOVERNING BODY should make a comment?

And certainly, a BOD member of the organization should not be shirking that duty to the general membership.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Ah, yes.

I'd also like to see what the USPA is going to do if it was a suicide. I mean after all they require at least a Class 3 FAA medical and depression is one of the questions asked on that medical.

But as of right now, we only have YOUR speculation it was a suicide. Maybe the GOVERNING BODY should make a comment?

And certainly, a BOD member of the organization should not be shirking that duty to the general membership.



This is getting to be a bit ridiculous. Does anyone really think that a TI, during his medical is going to write in that he or she is dealing with depression knowing that it's a possible disqualifier? We're not going to add a suicide screening process because one TI committed suicide.

Also, the "governing body" isn't going to rush into an investigation and make a statement like that. What would you think if just a week after an incident the wrote it off as "suicide" and did no further investigation?

The fact is that for almost every incident there's not new boogieman out there, if you follow your procedures correctly and maintain your gear correctly that thing won't happen to you.

Everyone cool out. We probably all know what it was but if you're interested in addressing the issue then go back to your DZ and review procedures and gear maintenance with your staff. I don't know what to say about addressing depression but the last thing I want is the USPA or the government adding psychological screening to my life.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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But as of right now, we only have YOUR speculation it was a suicide. Maybe the GOVERNING BODY should make a comment?

And certainly, a BOD member of the organization should not be shirking that duty to the general membership.



Make what kind of comment? What if there is nothing for them to say? Your demands would seem to be getting more and more excessive. It is unlikely that you would ever be happy unless your desire to have DZs drop the requirement for USPA membership happens.

It's not ever going to happen. But just keep complaining. The more outrage you express the less seriously you will be taken. In the meantime perhaps we could move this discussion back to the incident and stop using it to advance your lonely agenda?

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I'd also like to see what the USPA is going to do if it was a suicide. I mean after all they require at least a Class 3 FAA medical and depression is one of the questions asked on that medical.



I bet this guy thinks "Gun free zone" signs stop shootings. Seriously, I do not understand why everyone is freaking out over this incident.

It was likely a suicide or human error (no leg straps). If it was something wrong with the design of their rig this would not be the first time it has ever happen.

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Does anyone really think that a TI, during his medical is going to write in that he or she is dealing with depression knowing that it's a possible disqualifier?



Then maybe it is time to admit the requirement for a third class medical is stupid... Especially since the FAA does not care about it.

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Also, the "governing body" isn't going to rush into an investigation and make a statement like that. What would you think if just a week after an incident the wrote it off as "suicide" and did no further investigation?



You are confusing a preliminary and a final report. They could, and SHOULD, do both.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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The more outrage....lonely agenda



Back to ignoring you. You are trying to play the player and not the topic again.

How dare I think the organization that licenses and "certify's" DZ's as "safe" should actually do their job!!!!!

Anyone know if there is a "block function"? gowlerk has again stopped providing content and has instead fallen back to insults.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Ron

***************I Agree...anybody can speack with someone in this DZ and try to find any explanation or data more accurate?



207-339-1520. Let us know what you find out.

LOL
Perfect response.

What, you don't think the USPA should be checking on an instructor they licensed at a DZ they approved via the GM system?

They are, as they always do.

You would think they would want to communicate that info to all the other instructors they certified. You know, instead of a USPA BOD member telling the membership to do the work.

USPA will communicate the pertinent information to the professionals in the field, but waits for the facts before disseminating any information, as it should be. If something is an immediate safety concern (like an equipment failure that could be systemic) the information would be provided to the manufacturer and they would decide how best to handle the situation. That’s the manufacturer’s responsibility. I’m sure USPA would assist in disseminating information at the manufacturer’s request, but could be liable if information was released prematurely and found to be incorrect. Image the lawsuit if incorrect or incomplete information was released and it hurt the manufacturer’s reputation, cost sales, etc.

As always, this fatality is being investigated by the proper authorities and a report will be filed with HQ through the proper channels. From there, the basic facts and analysis will be published in the Parachutist magazine incident reports.

By the way, I wasn’t telling the membership to do anything. Everything that needs to be happening already is. I was just pointing out that if someone is hell bent to know things before the information is released, they have the right to inquire on their own.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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bet this guy thinks "Gun free zone" signs stop shootings.



You clearly have ZERO idea who you are talking to...

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It was likely a suicide or human error (no leg straps).



Don't you think it would be nice to know which? Don't you think the USPA should be doing more than telling the members to look into it themselves?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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...and what exactly are you looking for someone to say?????
You do realize that UPT is involved, right? You do relaaize if there was a major flaw in the equipment that needed to be addressed so urgently as to prevent another accident like this from happening you would have heard about it by now?

PLease....what answers are you looking for and what do you want to hear from the FAA and the USPA???

It seems like you are demanding answers without posing an actual question.....You are also doing this on DZ.com....Maybe try calling your regional representative and UPT and see what they have to say about but complaining about it on dropzone.com isn't really going to get you the answers you are seemingly so desperate for. I'm sorry

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By the way, I wasn’t telling the membership to do anything.



Huh, didn't YOU write "207-339-1520. Let us know what you find out."

Trying to claim things you did, never happened?

Maybe the BOD should not be telling the membership to do the USPA's job?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Ron

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By the way, I wasn’t telling the membership to do anything.



Huh, didn't YOU write "207-339-1520. Let us know what you find out."

Trying to claim things you did, never happened?

Maybe the BOD should not be telling the membership to do the USPA's job?



Ron - are you ever done trying to pick fights? I simply provided a phone number and ask that he let us know what (if anything) he discovered if he chose to call. Nowhere in that phrase do you see me telling him what to do, nor was I suggesting he "do USPA's job".


I think most readers also picked up on my sarcasm, but apparently you did not.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Ron

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bet this guy thinks "Gun free zone" signs stop shootings.



You clearly have ZERO idea who you are talking to...

***It was likely a suicide or human error (no leg straps).



Don't you think it would be nice to know which? Don't you think the USPA should be doing more than telling the members to look into it themselves?

Ron,

Don't care who anyone is. Poor reasoning can come from anyone. Thinking a class three is going to stop someone with depression or stop someone from developing depression before it expires is an absolutely ridiculous assumption.


Shure it will be nice to know eventually. There is no reason it needs to be know immediately or with the aggression and hostility you are showing in this thread. The correct authorities will disseminate the information through the proper channels.

Also, one person on DZ.com does not represent the entire USPA.

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Ron - are you ever done trying to pick fights?



Trying to play me? I was just asking why a USPA BOD member was telling members to do the job of the USPA. Don't blame me you don't like me pointing that out.

BTW, your trying to insult me has ZERO impact. Shame the USPA BOD has to insult individuals.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Ron

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Ron - are you ever done trying to pick fights?



Trying to play me? I was just asking why a USPA BOD member was telling members to do the job of the USPA. Don't blame me you don't like me pointing that out.

BTW, your trying to insult me has ZERO impact. Shame the USPA BOD has to insult individuals.



lol, Ron, the USPA is doing their job. I can assure you that calling the DZ public number is not what they are supposed to do.

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Like those FAA reports on pilots that commit suicide?
Yeah.."those".
LOL



The FAA has said it is going to take mental health seriously.

https://rosap.ntl.bts.gov/view/dot/26969

And they do report on suicides (NTSB):
https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20100218X33746&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA

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Lighten up Francis



You will have to forgive me for wanting the USPA to do all it claims it does.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Don't care who anyone is. Poor reasoning can come from anyone.



YOU were the one that made this baseless claim: "bet this guy thinks "Gun free zone" signs stop shootings."

Instead of trying to "play the player", you might try to play the ball. That is poor reasoning.

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Thinking a class three is going to stop someone with depression or stop someone from developing depression before it expires is an absolutely ridiculous assumption.



Never said it would. In fact, I think the USPA should drop the FAA medical requirement. It makes zero sense after LSA and now Basic Med. It is just the USPA doing what UPT wants.

Quote

Also, one person on DZ.com does not represent the entire USPA.



He is on the BOD.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Ron

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Don't care who anyone is. Poor reasoning can come from anyone.



YOU were the one that made this baseless claim: "bet this guy thinks "Gun free zone" signs stop shootings."

Instead of trying to "play the player", you might try to play the ball. That is poor reasoning.

***Thinking a class three is going to stop someone with depression or stop someone from developing depression before it expires is an absolutely ridiculous assumption.



Never said it would. In fact, I think the USPA should drop the FAA medical requirement. It makes zero sense after LSA and now Basic Med. It is just the USPA doing what UPT wants.

Quote

Also, one person on DZ.com does not represent the entire USPA.



He is on the BOD.

Nice attempted dodge, you said:

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Let's see.... Do I think the organization that licensed the instructor and that claims to "certify" certain DZ's as safe and that claims to regulate skydiving in the US so the FAA stays away to give information relevant to a fatal tandem accident that involved a USPA licensed instructor at a USPA approved DZ?

Ah, yes.

I'd also like to see what the USPA is going to do if it was a suicide. I mean after all they require at least a Class 3 FAA medical and depression is one of the questions asked on that medical.



As you can see you implied that the class three should have prevented this and you want to know what the upsa is going to do about it. If you didn't imply that the entire premise of your question about the USPA wouldn't make sense. My claim about gun signs is not baseless. It is based in you implying that a class three should have prevented this. which is as ridiculous as thinking gun signs stop shootings. (I agree class three is dumb but its a good CYA for the UPSA, FAA, and DZO) If you didn't imply that your question wouldn't make sense, and you should be more clear on what you want instead of just ranting.

1 USPA Board member still doesn't speak for the entire USPA or the part of the USPA that assists in investigations.

So yeah, Ron, again, chill. It's one incident, information will come out, and when it does you can comment on it all you want. Right now your in the category of "old man yells at cloud." Just relax.

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As you can see you implied that the class three should have prevented this



Nope, try reading it again... I said the USPA requires an FAA medical.

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If you didn't imply that the entire premise of your question about the USPA wouldn't make sense



Nonsense. It makes perfect sense if you realize that I think most of what the USPA does is a joke. They demand at least a class three medical but the FAA does not care about a medical for skydiving - UPT does and forced the USPA to make TI's have one.

Pointing out the guy had a medical is pointing out it DIDN'T work... So why is the USPA demanding it? And what are they going to do about the situation if the medical clearly didn't stop anything.

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My claim about gun signs is not baseless.



It is because:
1. This has nothing to do with guns.
2. Maybe you should read my sig line.

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It is based in you implying that a class three should have prevented this.



Again, not what I said at all. Maybe what you wanted to think I typed... But not what I actually did type.

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I agree class three is dumb but its a good CYA for the UPSA, FAA, and DZO



It only protects the manufacturer. Maybe you should read up on when TI's were "certified" the rig maker. They didn't want to do it so they begged the USPA to take it over. But they demanded the USPA keep the medical. USPA caved and bowed to the manufactures wishes over the membership.

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and you should be more clear on what you want instead of just ranting.



Maybe you should read what was written and not what you wanted it to say.

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So yeah, Ron, again, chill. It's one incident, information will come out, and when it does you can comment on it all you want. Right now your in the category of "old man yells at cloud." Just relax.



Yep, more trying to play me and not the topic... You try to claim about people using bad logic, you might want to read up on Ad hominem.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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