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yoink

Any plumbers here?

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ChrisD2.0


IT IS NOT a code requirement that the WC be sealed to the floor.



It IS a code requirement in San Jose, CA and Alpine County, CA. Those are the only places I've installed toilets, and inspectors will not pass the installation if it is not sealed, 100% of the periphery. I personally think that the requirement makes no sense, although a thin, neat job with caulk that matches the toilet looks good. If matching caulk isn't an option, a very narrow bead of clear silicone is essentially invisible.

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Yeah, I found a flange with a wider diameter which let me get bolts to the subfloor.

Worse news is that the glass panel I bought doesn’t fit my tile job. I did it in the wrong order... should have bought the glass to fit the tiles, not trt to do it the other way round. DOH!

Anyone have any use for an 80x53” piece of 1/2” low-iron tempered glass? Going cheap!:D


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He said it's tempered. Didn't think you could cut that.

But yeah, when I built our shower the glass door people said, tile it first, then we will measure it as built and order the shower door to match.

Seth
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

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yoink

Yeah, I found a flange with a wider diameter which let me get bolts to the subfloor.

Worse news is that the glass panel I bought doesn’t fit my tile job. I did it in the wrong order... should have bought the glass to fit the tiles, not trt to do it the other way round. DOH!

Anyone have any use for an 80x53” piece of 1/2” low-iron tempered glass? Going cheap!:D



Can't you take it back to the store for a refund?
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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Are you a plumber in CA?

Cause in 2016 CA and San Jose adopted the Iapmo , style of plumbing code for the whole state. Section 4 , 401.0 thru 422.9 Don't indicate any such requirement.

If you have a code reference that disputes this feel free to post it.

Of course some plumbing inspectors can suggest personal preferences. But sealing the base of toilets is not without problems. Which is why it is NOT a code requirement. Plumbers actually follow codes, which are laws which apply to plumbers with hard won licenses.

This is why I love the internet, anyone that sounds plausible can have a voice. I suggest you post the relevant section of the CA plumbing code that your indicating is a requirement to seal 100% of the periphery. Cause in section 402.4 which governs the sealing and requirements for location and methods as well as a few other sections of the code,... they make no mention of having this requirement.

There are reasons plumbers are required to obtain permits to do plumbing work in CA, mostly to protect others health, this is why referring to the code is mandatory as compared with someone's personal opinion.

Unlike skydiving where equipment and opinions run freely, in plumbing and in regards to the publics health you have to be able to justify your responses. Amongst plumbers , most plumbers can reference the relevant code by heart. I suggest you restrain yourself from commenting about plumbing until your able to quote the relevant code sections lest someone actually follows your suggestions without question. And creates serious health issues for themselves and or others living in an unsafe dwelling. Which is why plumbers discourage DIY projects for the most part, It's all the stuff you don't know.

Granted in this instance , with luck not much is going to happen over time. But the wrong offhand comment with other plumbing issues can and has caused much loss of life and illness in the past by well meaning unlicensed individuals who attempt what seems to be a "simple" project.

Again, seriously, if you have a plumbing inspector that has gone off the reservation and interprets the plumbing code as they see fit, many licensed plumbers actually take stuff like that very seriously and feel free to post their names , I guarantee they will hear about it. Plumbers tend to stick together, lot better than skydivers, tell ya that,...
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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yoink

Yeah, I found a flange with a wider diameter which let me get bolts to the subfloor.

Worse news is that the glass panel I bought doesn’t fit my tile job. I did it in the wrong order... should have bought the glass to fit the tiles, not trt to do it the other way round. DOH!

Anyone have any use for an 80x53” piece of 1/2” low-iron tempered glass? Going cheap!:D



You could also try to gouge out a channel in the tile with a grinder and then set the glass in place? Your not alone with glass not fitting in ceramic walls and such. Sounds good so far though.
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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ChrisD2.0

Are you a plumber in CA?

Cause in 2016 CA and San Jose adopted the Iapmo , style of plumbing code for the whole state. Section 4 , 401.0 thru 422.9 Don't indicate any such requirement.

If you have a code reference that disputes this feel free to post it.

Of course some plumbing inspectors can suggest personal preferences. But sealing the base of toilets is not without problems. Which is why it is NOT a code requirement. Plumbers actually follow codes, which are laws which apply to plumbers with hard won licenses.

This is why I love the internet, anyone that sounds plausible can have a voice. I suggest you post the relevant section of the CA plumbing code that your indicating is a requirement to seal 100% of the periphery. Cause in section 402.4 which governs the sealing and requirements for location and methods as well as a few other sections of the code,... they make no mention of having this requirement.

There are reasons plumbers are required to obtain permits to do plumbing work in CA, mostly to protect others health, this is why referring to the code is mandatory as compared with someone's personal opinion.

Unlike skydiving where equipment and opinions run freely, in plumbing and in regards to the publics health you have to be able to justify your responses. Amongst plumbers , most plumbers can reference the relevant code by heart. I suggest you restrain yourself from commenting about plumbing until your able to quote the relevant code sections lest someone actually follows your suggestions without question. And creates serious health issues for themselves and or others living in an unsafe dwelling. Which is why plumbers discourage DIY projects for the most part, It's all the stuff you don't know.

Granted in this instance , with luck not much is going to happen over time. But the wrong offhand comment with other plumbing issues can and has caused much loss of life and illness in the past by well meaning unlicensed individuals who attempt what seems to be a "simple" project.

Again, seriously, if you have a plumbing inspector that has gone off the reservation and interprets the plumbing code as they see fit, many licensed plumbers actually take stuff like that very seriously and feel free to post their names , I guarantee they will hear about it. Plumbers tend to stick together, lot better than skydivers, tell ya that,...





Thanks for the drama Chris. We all should worry a lot here about off reservation plumbing inspectors in CA. But skydivers not sticking together? Nah.....we are as one! Have you been to a DZ lately?

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"402.2 Joints Where a fixture comes in contact with the wall or floor, the joint between the fixture and the wall or floor shall be made watertight."

In my opinion, the wax seal should cover that. OTOH, the contact with the floor is only around the periphery of the base. I agree with you that sealing around the base can cause problems, e.g. by hiding a leaking wax seal, allowing undetected structure damage. Maybe the interpretation varies with the inspector -- I've only questioned two, in two different counties, and they both required it.

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The only reason I continue to beat this to death is the fact that you have illustrated a hot topic when most of the countries codes switched (fairly) recently from an individual state codes to a more uniform national commercial code.

This particular incident came up about some products refer to plumbing fixtures from manufacturers That the manufacturer specified the fixture in question was not to be "made watertight" because to do so would damage the fixture and or create sanitary issues.

Another topic the general statement implied was the fact that the code's both the IPAMO version and the International version do not specify how, or what constitutes sealing. What constitutes which calk, silicone, etc.


My main point continues to be that codes exist for plumbers to fight over: NOT DIY's. And when NON-PLUMBERS get into debates about the code by quoting renegade inspectors more entertainment ensues. Throw in a few DIY types that want to save a buck because the plumber has left the building and this just creates a big mess for the homeowner.

Which is something I left out in prior posts because by the very same plumbing codes, any inspector has the right to "Order" the plumber who pulled the permit for the job to return and finish the job even if the plumber hasn't been fully paid. Perhaps you can see the beginnings of issues if the person asking the questions isn't a plumber in areas where homeowner's are not allowed to obtain plumbing permits.

As another example that this issue causes is the fact that some materials if used improperly can and will crack the base of a ceramic fixture. So if you blanket'ly follow without question some of these new uniform codes, you will in fact be creating issues. I was trying to avoid some of these plumber only types of issues. If you shim the base of a toilet incorrectly,.. is another sure fire way to follow the code , the section about being level, etc,...point being however plumbers can "fight" many code issues, homeowners cannot.

You make some very good observations and comments, BUT with plumbing there are numerous examples of conflicts and other code requirements in other sections of these codes. I'm glad you qualified the reasons why some fixtures can and should be "sealed" but I continue to caution about the many plumbing issues and problems non- licensed DIY's get into by not fully understanding the codes an why they are they way they are.

I'm currently involved with litigation about sub-standard construction issues which resulted in multiple fatalities. Think homeowners who did work which required a license they didn't hold. I also put myself thru University by working as a medic in a fairly large city, for years. I have seen too much needless death and suffering by well intentioned people. Not in this case, but sometimes, again,...it's what you don't know that gets ya.

Like did anyone measure the temperature of the hot water? Is there an anti scald type of valve installed. Falls in a shower kill about 9,000 give or take, people a year, according to NIH. And I can go on. With out a permit and a licensed person, your family may loose out on legal recourse as just one example. This is why I'm a prick,...to get some of you to think.
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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ChrisD2.0


Like did anyone measure the temperature of the hot water? Is there an anti scald type of valve installed. Falls in a shower kill about 9,000 give or take, people a year, according to NIH. And I can go on. With out a permit and a licensed person, your family may loose out on legal recourse as just one example. This is why I'm a prick,...to get some of you to think.



I had permits and used licensed plumbers and electricians. You are likely more meticulous than many plumbers, but I have not been consistently impressed by the pro plumbers. I decided to change out some faucets that had just been installed for another finish that looked better, and found that the plumber had reversed the order a metal washer/rubber seal on both faucets -- it wasn't leaking and may never have leaked, but it wasn't right. Obviously, I read the instructions and did it correctly when I swapped them out. The pro plumbers did not measure the temperature limit settings at all on the showers (maybe with their finger), so I set them up myself to manufacturers specifications.

Where I live in urban California, DIYers can pull permits and do pretty much every type of house construction work themselves. There might be some specialty stuff that they cannot do, but pretty much all typical residential electrical, plumbing, framing, roofing, foundation, etc. is okay. What they cannot legally do is pull permits and then hire some unlicensed "plumber" or "electrician" or handyman to do the work, or do the work themselves without the required permits. I personally probably wouldn't hesitate to do minor stuff without permits (e.g., add electrical receptacle), but I know when such things are done correctly, and have good judgement to know when I don't have the knowledge.

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BillyVance

***Yeah, I found a flange with a wider diameter which let me get bolts to the subfloor.

Worse news is that the glass panel I bought doesn’t fit my tile job. I did it in the wrong order... should have bought the glass to fit the tiles, not trt to do it the other way round. DOH!

Anyone have any use for an 80x53” piece of 1/2” low-iron tempered glass? Going cheap!:D



Can't you take it back to the store for a refund?

Nah. It was a custom piece.

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I'm a union member in Ca. Plumbers and pipefitters. Have certs in welding, brazing, medical gas, plumbing and pipefitting. Code book for plumbing> https://www.buildersbook.com/2015-uniform-plumbing-code-softcover.html
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

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Doe's sound like we both meticulous. I know exactly what you mean by many licensed plumbers taking shortcuts and not having a clue. Way too many IMO. Spot on. Which is why many issues get even bigger when licensed dolts rule and point to their "credentials." IMO, credentials and licenses are no replacement to actually knowing as much as you can and being aware of the pros and cons of anything. In NY, NY, you get caught doing anything without a licensed person,...and you could loose your homeowners insurance, occupancy, first kid,... Home owner's can't do squat. When I was at the tunnel in Pigieon fordge TN a few years back, no one had a license or codes for that matter for anything. It was the wild west. Gotta be a balance somewhere.

Ya want a real trip, come to PR,...still have homeless people here from the storms. Lots of building codes,...lots of "inspectors" for 10 bucks looked the other way. I calls it the Three Little Pigs scenario,...on a really big scale.

Met Whity Buldger once,....he asked: "can you cheat at cards?"

I said "I couldn't." " Don't have a clue how to cheat at cards."

"Then yo don't know what your doing." "Don't play cards."

Me thinks there's sum kinda wisdom in there somewhere.
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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Quote



Of course some plumbing inspectors can suggest personal preferences. But sealing the base of toilets is not without problems. Which is why it is NOT a code requirement. .





Here in Indiana we use the International Plumbing Code. Section 405.5:"Joints formed where fixtures come in contact with walls or floors shall be sealed." Indiana licensed plumbing dolt since 1984.
"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

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Why is it controversial ? I've doing it for decades. I use clear silicone. It's invisible if done neatly. And damn near everything in any code is subject to interpretation.;)

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

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Croc

Why is it controversial ? I've doing it for decades. I use clear silicone. It's invisible if done neatly. And damn near everything in any code is subject to interpretation.;)



The adoption of a "universal" plumbing code has created issues with many DIY sites and people pretending to be plumbers, as well as issues with many ignorant plumbers as well.

If you don't understand why sealing the base of fixtures and the issues this creates, perhaps you should leave plumbing to those with licenses.

Most of the issue comes from the definition of what is and isn't considered a joint, as in a pipe joint. Also since none of yo all can indicate the sanitary reasons and practical reasons as well as the FACT that no one has really mentioned why it is impotant to protect the trap seal. Well the only controversy is really laypeople discussing issues they don't fully understand in the first place, which is why most states require licensing in the first place. Despite the appearance that construction can be done by anyone.
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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ChrisD2.0

***Why is it controversial ? I've doing it for decades. I use clear silicone. It's invisible if done neatly. And damn near everything in any code is subject to interpretation.;)



The adoption of a "universal" plumbing code has created issues with many DIY sites and people pretending to be plumbers, as well as issues with many ignorant plumbers as well.

If you don't understand why sealing the base of fixtures and the issues this creates, perhaps you should leave plumbing to those with licenses.

Most of the issue comes from the definition of what is and isn't considered a joint, as in a pipe joint. Also since none of yo all can indicate the sanitary reasons and practical reasons as well as the FACT that no one has really mentioned why it is impotant to protect the trap seal. Well the only controversy is really laypeople discussing issues they don't fully understand in the first place, which is why most states require licensing in the first place. Despite the appearance that construction can be done by anyone.


Indiana PC81063829, Master Plumber since 1984.
"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

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You are arguing with a troll - someone that has claimed to be a super current jumper jumping the latest gear but then also admitted under a previous user name that he only had a few jumps in the 70's. He tried to talk about jumping the latest military gear today until someone called him on it and he deleted that part. He has been removed from some Facebook groups for his posts there already since he was very abusive and is on his last chance here before we disable his account again.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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